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Politics : To be a Liberal,you have to believe that..... -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: c.horn who wrote (5988)	4/29/2001 11:05:25 PM
From: shadowman	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 6418

And some men think that Arnold Schwartzenegger is an actor. So I guess we (men) shouldn't be taken seriously? :)

To: c.horn who wrote (5988)	4/30/2001 12:00:49 AM
From: American Spirit	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 6418

This is a silly idea for a thread. Liberal? That word went out of existence in the late 70's. Name one really powerful liberal in America? Can't think of one right? Or maybe you think Dick Gephardt is a liberal. Well think again. Democrat leaders these days are moderate or a hybrid (like me) and that's why Ralph Nader exists. Now he is a liberal but not a powerful one, except as a spoiler. Besides aging liberal icons Jesse Jackson and Ted Kennedy the democratic leadership now is more conservative than their GOP brethren on the economy, censorship of the media, the environment and on matters like tobacco use, sin taxes and gun control. Let me explain. Economy and taxes: GOP says "this is your money so here take some back" but they won't admit and nevr say "this is your debt, pay it off first". Running a huge credit card bill indefinitely is hardly fiscally conservative. Would it be in your household? Clinton did a great job paying off on it. Censorship - Lieberman is the #1 enemy of freedom of content in the media. Tipper Gore was the original. These are strict parents even though they probably smoked grass back in college. But of course Lieberman is Jewish which most right-wingers don't like. Environment - conservation SHOULD = conservative but somehow a terrible thing has happened to the GOP where they've wedded themselves to special interest soft-money which wants to use up and pollute the environment to the detriment of future generations. (oil, coal, timber, mining etc.) They even go so far as to cut clean alternative fuel programs during an energy crisis. I consider environmental conservation to be the most fundamental conservative principal. You can disagree but in the long-run you'll understand if you don't already. Kill the golden goose and no more golden eggs. All for short-term gain. Ugly. Tobacco and alchohol - funny that the party of the Moral Majority takes money from tobacco and alchohol manufacturers not to mention the gun lobby. Hmm. Guns - I believe liberalizing gun laws means allowing more access to guns. Therefore stricter laws are conservative. Cmmon sense. Rush Limbaugh by the way is one of the least credible and most biased talkshow hosts there is. Howard Stern is more credible. At least he sees both sides of things sometimes. Rush acts as if everything is black and white (or white in his case), never gives credence to any arguments other than the current party-line right-wing ones and has a lot of hatred in him. He is the original basher. bashing mostly what he doesn't understand. And isn't interested in understanding. He preaches to the choir, is a egomanic and a major loud-mouth who never lets anyone else get a word in edgewise whenever he "debates". I listened for awhile then tuned out. He has nothing to say and you ened Exedrine after ten minutes. Just a silly basher out to rally the troops for a war against changing times. Like a more jovial Pat Buchanon he just doesn't get it. As if we can ever go back to Ozzie and Harriet days when everyone was white, clean-cut and lived in small towns in the midwest. The world has changed, my friends. If you want an example, watch THE LONGEST DAY (1963) on on DVD now. Great movie except that amongst the 1000 male military parts including extras there is not one black, asian or latino face. As if the entire world was white. Nowadays 80% of the military is minorities. THE LONGEST DAY loos remarkably like the GOP convention whenever they turned the camera away from the token minorities onstage onto the crowd. Seriously though, most Americans now are hybrids. Moderate, independent, less wedded to parties for party's sake. The big parties have become evils in my opinion and need downsizing. No competition has made them fat and corrupt, the GOP most of all with its bigger soft-money ties. Campaign Finance Reform should help a lot so support it everyone, left, right, center or a combination of the three like me. PS - I am male and white and middle-American so no offence white folks. And I too am conservative by your standards and mine on many issues. PSS - When "liberal" Democrat Bob Kerry turns out to have been involved in a Vietnam massacre and awarded the Silver Star (or whatever medal) for it you know the differences between sides are much more imaginary than real. Bush and Cheney meanwhile avoided the war with every contact they had but are now military hawks. Go figure. Frankly if we got rid of these two parties and all their soft money you'd see a lot more sanity in the whole system. Democracy counts not the richest few. Important issues we can fairly debate count. Not major parties, scripted spin doctors or loud-mouthed demagogues on either end of the spectrum. To me they're all out of touch, as are many who follow them blindly. Most people are disgusted with the whole system. Don't be surprised to see more Jesse Venturas get in out of pure disgust. And no I'm not a Jesse supporter though he is right I believe to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal.