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Politics : War -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Yaacov who wrote (1091)	5/7/2001 12:30:09 PM
From: Carolyn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

Also a good post, Yaacov. No one should forget the horrors and sins committed in World War II, or in any war. It is a stain on all of us. Man has always been so brutal against his own kind from time to time. I wonder from whence it comes.

To: Yaacov who wrote (1091)	5/7/2001 1:21:59 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

Yaacov... I didn't say forget. And I think you know that is NOT what I meant. I'm very sympathetic with the plight of the Jews. I can think of no other nationality that has suffered throughout history from the prejudices and oppression of their fellow man, let alone all out genocide. In fact, my wife is 1/2 Armenian, so I can sympathize on a personal level, and her great-grandmother was stabbed numerous times by the Turks and left for dead. However, she literally crawled out of the grave and survived to raise a family that has NEVER forgotten what happened. And they have put this event in its "place" with respect to their current lives. And I think most of them realize that all of mankind, given the proper environment of hatred, fear, and/or jealousy, can commit similar crimes. The German people certainly understand the severity of their complicity in the Holocaust, just as many Turks may also realize THEIR complicity. And the Japanese people are now discovering the level of complicity their ancestors had with regard to genocide against the Chinese and other people. Even the American people have had to deal with the complicity of their ancestors with regard to the conquest of the Indians, as well as human slavery. What is important is that we acknowledge the past evils that were committed, and resolve that never again will we be party to such horrors. As I told you via PM, the key is to ensure that future generations NEVER forget the horrors of the past. That they never forget what evil occurs when totalitarianism and jingoism mix to disenfranchise one race in favor of another. I'm not so much into "sancitioning" or "condemning", but rather understanding and diffusing those points of conflict that extremists advance in order to manipulate the desire of the majority. I'm into having both sides realizing the reality of the situation and seeking compromise and cooperation, as well as mutual respect for the desires of the conflicting parties. Israel has no more to apologize for than does the PLO, or Nasser's Egypt, Iran's Hezbollah (and other fundamentalist groups), or Hussein's Iraq. Both sides use brutal tactics against the other. However, I will say that I believe Israel is much more aware of international opinion and desires international acceptance of their cause. I do not believe Israel (as a majority) seeks anything other than to live in peace with their neighbors. This stands in stark contrast to perpetual cries eminating from Arab and Palestinians leaders for the destruction of Israel. And Israel has conquered and occupied territory from which they have been attacked constantly, such as the West Bank and the Sinai. And under the rules of war, should have every right to maintain such occupation that secures their borders. But to their credit, they have shown themselves willing to trade "land for peace". And since in 1967, Jordan foolishly attacked Israel in support of Nasser's Egypt, despite the Israeli government's pleas with the late King Hussein not to do so, I would suggest that Israel has EVERY right to completely occupy the West Bank and never give it back. After all, it was not a "palestinian partition" at that time, but an annexed territory of Jordan. But these are all technicalities and legalistic ramblings. The reality is that the Israelis and Palestinians must focus on living together because neither side is going to cave in. And since the Palestinians seem to lack the realization that they are being used as pawns by other Arab nations seeking to exploit their plight as a means of attacking Israel by "proxy", unfortunately the path to further all out conflict grows day to day. This is the plight of the Palestinians. They are stuck in the middle with no true "friends" but only governments seeking to use them. Jordan's interest in this (and I like King Abdullah, btw) is to not let the focus of a Palestininan "homeland" transition from the West Bank to claims against his own country. Because Jordan is as much an artificial entity as is Israel. And it is as much part of Palestine, as is Israel. And the same situation applies to Lebanon and Syria, all of which possess part of what has historically been considered Palestine. So keeping Arafat in conflict with Israel is certainly preferable to the Palestinians directing their attacks against the Arab Kings and Tribal rulers who are every bit as guilty of "invading" Palestine as are the Israelis. And I can assert with some confidence that the Hashemite Arabs didn't compensate those Palestinians who were displaced by their occupation. Hawk