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To: pcstel who wrote (99692)	5/22/2001 4:11:42 PM
From: Bob Kim	Respond to of 152472

pcstel, re: If you want to sit here an preach and say that the folks over at Merril Lynch are off their rockers. This is what they are saying today, tomorrow could be something different. The thing about Merrill is that there are numerous, and often conflicting, opinions floating about at any given time, so it depends on who said it and what day and time.

To: pcstel who wrote (99692)	5/22/2001 4:29:40 PM
From: ggamer	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 152472

<<Let's say a Airport Lounge that will support 30 users! Just buy 3 of these..http://www.apple.com/airport/ @ $299 each. It provides DHCP and stand alone PPPOE!! A DSL router.. DHCP and PPPOE 4 port. $149.00 A DSL modem..$99 (if not included in you DSL subscription). A roll of Cat. 5 and some connectors.. $100.00>> While you are at it, can you put one of these system in: 1) At my work's bathroom so I can trade stocks 2) Yosimiti 3) My 2 cars 4) Hawaii beach where a used my sprint wireless web last weekend. 5) My grocery store 6) My pubs (10 of them) 7) And all of the 1000 of places that I am going to visit this year. Let me know when you are done, Thx GGamer

To: pcstel who wrote (99692)	5/22/2001 4:53:57 PM
From: jackmore	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 152472

Re:>>Let's say a Airport Lounge that will support 30 users! Just buy 3 of these..http://www.apple.com/airport/ @ $299 each. It provides DHCP and stand alone PPPOE!! A DSL router.. DHCP and PPPOE 4 port. $149.00 A DSL modem..$99 (if not included in you DSL subscription). A roll of Cat. 5 and some connectors.. $100.00 That will cost your store $1,300 bucks, and $45 a month DSL service. And $1000 bucks to install it!<i/> Trying to understand this. Does this configuration mean that 30 users would be funneled through one DSL modem onto the net OR are there 30 parallel modems? i.e. What data rates are experienced by each of the 30 individual laptops? TIA, jack

To: pcstel who wrote (99692)	5/22/2001 10:43:37 PM
From: engineer	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 152472

I can tell your just an engineer. Yea, so we buy that $1500 worth of stuff and have your nephew put it in. Ok, so how long has your corporate LAN ran wihtout having a problem.....for GO$s sake? And how many hours did it take to fix it? And I suppose that you think those lowly IT guys that came right over to fix it were on payroll for free? And of course, some higher level customer service person had to take the call and assign those IT guys to come and fix it, but then this higher level supervisor was not paid either? And who determined that the LAN was not working? the highly trained Airline Desk asstsants in the Admirals club? And how long was the response time for your IT guys to come out? Hours, days? weeks? but then this all costs FREE. And since it is FREE, then your subscribers, whoever it is that wants to pay you money for a once a month thru the airport experience are willing to NOT use it when they NEED it since your IT guys take more than an hour to get there. And then we have a little problem of how to make that profitable for ONE LITTLE airport installation. So that nice little "just throw it in and forget about it because it is so simple" $1500 investment costs you like $10k a year to maintain. And oh, we forgot replacements and spares to cut down on the response time. And how much do these Airport travlers want to pay you for this service? Is it one time per use or is it once per year? Ok, so they want to do it once per visit, like pay per view. Who collects the money? Oh, you need a point of sale person? And they cost $7.50 an hour? but then someone has to run a system which takes the credit card and clears the transaction for you. Oh, that costs you a setup fee of $10k plus 3% per transaction plus someone has to run the accounting and audits on that per year, so there goes another $20k. and oh, just a little system, so how much revenue do you generate from this simple installation? enough to keep some company staff running, like a CEO or even a board member or two? And how big is this company? One airport? Two , 3, 4? After about 4 you had better figure out how to keep a salesperson happy. Oh, they come at about $100k a year, if you want one that shows up every day and actually has some sales expereince. Oh, but lets not put in security, so anyone can use it and we can't actually get any subscribtion fees ( like AIRZONE does and is going out of business) and everyone just sits out in the regular airport and uses it wihtout paying any more. So there goes any revenue we had going and if you were Admirals club, there goes the hook to get them to come in and buy subscriptions. And then someone gets their email ripped off by evesdropping and sues you for violating their privacy. Word gets out that company LANS are wide open on your network and people come to the airport just to rip off corporate clients. Put in a few HUNDRED THOUSAND for legal fees, Directors insurance, CEO insurance. but hey we can let your nephew take care of that since he installed the network too. Tell you what, when you actually get out of the pure engineer mode and actually have to run a business and have something more than clear AIR behind your ears, come back and try having a BUSINESS level discussion wiht a loaded gun. Until that time your just guessing. Instead of the pathetic crying "I want my airport stuff for free" crap. I could go on for hours on how to run a REAL business on this stuff and operate it for a REAL profit, but I am afraid that you have been inside big companies where alot of other people take care of all this and coddle you as a supreme being engineer and cover up all the crap around you. Not quite how the real world works. BTW - This is exactly why alot of new startups fail, as they are run by engineers who trivalize teh cost of operations and the cost of doing business. Who can;t understand that you have 100% overhead on a base salary, not just the salary alone. some how you always figure that the building and the Xerox machines are free. Alot of costs come about thru either poor management, poor planning, or just plain oversight in the business plans. but hey, if ML wants to invest in a bunch of insolvent businesses on your word, then go for it.

To: pcstel who wrote (99692)	5/23/2001 12:14:19 AM
From: Theophile	Respond to of 152472

Free IEE802.11X.....and safe sex in San Francisco... oxymoronic, I say. As far as IEE802.11X, when was the last time anyone here had to go find a pay-phone (not fun, huh?), just like one will need to go find a Starbucks or shopping mall...to get data from 802.11X...well, in an airport, there are plenty of pay phones (safe ones). I can just see driving to a shopping mall and parking (then hiking) and hauling in my laptop to get some files. Or I can see me sitting in my van with the engine and A/C running while I rattle off my work....IE802.11X will have its place, but mobility is not its space. I ain't about to use an unsecured net to do anything, kinda like trying to find safe sex in San Francisco. Forget the costs of network support and how anyone will ever bill for this availability? Maybe in an airport we will see yet another tax..you know, the car rental tax, the luggage tax, the hotel tax, the 802.11X tax. Why not? Sure, public phones and public lans are quite probable, but somehow there will exist a pay-station. Remember the free Internet? Yahoo, here we come ! MartinT