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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: epicure who wrote (14330)	5/25/2001 4:03:03 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

I know your comments would be very interesting. Golding wrote a number of books. The LOTF is the only one I have read. It has been a lot of years so I don't remember it well. Ralph--REASON Jack--AGGRESSION/INSTINCT/POWER/RELIGION Piggy--COOPERATION/COMMONALITY/SHARED PURPOSE Simon--SENSITIVITY/COMPASSION/INSIGHT/IMAGINATION/HUMANISM. The human species is multifaceted: Need, desire, fear, meaning--so many motives inform our behaviour, and so many combinations of types inform our communities. The interplay of force, reason, need, etc. creates so many kinds of people; so many kinds of societies. Golding chose to depict one which was both visceral...and relevant to the horror of the war he had just gone through. The only thing I remember about religion was the BEAST who was fearsome by virtue of being unknown. I suppose the ritual dances, where reason became subservient to the mob/group/ritual/instinct was religious. In this sense--the connection of blind frenzy with violence and cruelty certainty comports with religious history and with the immediate insanity of the war which Golding had gone through. In a way, Ralph, Piggy, and Simon represent Reason, Democracy, and Humanism; while Jack and Roger represent Force/Power/Control/Dictatorship...and Superstition/Religion/the absence of Reason. An equality of persons versus a hierarchy of power based on the ability to hurt and kill. As I said, I would have to re-read the book to give a very (hopefully) sensible review. But from what I remeber, religion was not the door to safety; but, rather, it was precisely the way they were all headed before the rescue. The elements of Force/Faith/Fear/Obediance were destroying the elements of sensitivity, compassion, kindness, and reason. And of course our history is a non fictional parallel to this wonderful story. Am I remembering it with any accuracy? I would love to read this again since you brought it up, but I don't own it. I would love to hear what you see in the book, X.

To: epicure who wrote (14330)	5/25/2001 12:12:34 PM
From: Greg or e	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Literary analysis is so subjective as to be almost totally useless. I remember an essay by C.S. Lewis on this where he said something to the affect that he could not remember one instance where this type of analysis of his current writings ever even came close to what he was trying to say or what his motives and sources were. Therefore what you think you "KNOW" probably is just you projecting your bias on to it. I haven't read the book, only seen the movie a couple of times, but it seems to me that it served my point well. Secular Humanism is a Religion/belief system just as much as Christianity is. What happens on the island when someone dares to decent? Hunted down like a dog most likely. Religion can and is used by some to control others. That says squat about the truth of the existence of God, or objective moral standards. It seem to me there were an awful lot of statements about this or that being "WRONG" and even the perpetrators consciences bothered them. They simply suppressed that God given knowledge for expedience sake, and because of their own personal safety. Come to think about it that sounds like what you do. Greg

To: epicure who wrote (14330)	5/25/2001 12:16:34 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

"One of the main themes of the book is that people often single out a person..." Well, I can't resist, Juummpin in....Buurrr, its cold! This book isn't about "People" in the general population sense of the word. "Lord of the Flies" is primarily about pre-adolescent boy psych stuff. I was first introduced to this book as a young teen. I remember discussing it with other boys. Boys think this idea is really cool (really). Have some boys who've read it, describe it to other boys. They get all juiced and excited. Try the same thing with girls...they just get disgusted. Unstable boys can find each other and act out on some pretty wild fantacies. Roll playing games, internet threads and chat rooms, etc. are a fantastic modern contact point for these kids. Historically, success at avoiding this kind of tragedy has been due to a strong society. One that could provide a foundation for decent behavior and a structure that guided boys through their development years. Older males who are able to role model, guide, and provide correction to adolescent males is an extremely important component of this formula. Once adolescent males mature through such a system, they are likely to define and support a decent structure for the following generations...and on it goes...or not. I have no questions in my mind about what adolescent males put together on their own...I've got a clear picture and it aint purtie. I consider organized religion to be one of the few established, structures in a society that can make a positive difference. I have plenty of criticisms of organized religion but this one doesn't apply. I am not seeing the tie you keep making between "Lord of the Flies" and religion. This story is about a "guy thing." I am not sure you get it.