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To: GVTucker who wrote (136267)	5/29/2001 4:26:47 PM
From: ptanner	Respond to of 186894

OT // GV, Re: "In the current United States, there is a belief that the poor shouldn't be subject to inferior health care or health care rationing." Oregon has implement a state wide health plan which rations health care based on the cost:benefit ratio. It is partially funded with Federal funds and is considered both successful (greatly expanded pool of beneficiaries by reducing cost/patient) and of course controversial. It has been recently criticized for being too conservative in adding new/experimental treatments. But, the basic premise seems to be solid and provide for a safety net for low income individuals. The insurance isn't free but the premiums cover only a portion of the program costs. Some quick links (I didn't read all of these just skimmed to see if relevant and reasonable): ohppr.state.or.us ksg.harvard.edu cascadepolicy.org (some criticism) cascadepolicy.org.\pdf\health_ss\spiers.htm (more recent criticism) -PT

To: GVTucker who wrote (136267)	5/29/2001 4:32:52 PM
From: willcousa	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 186894

There is a law which requires emergency rooms to give care to everyone. I doubt that a free market for health insurance would change that. Thus the poor have at least a safety net. Every state I have lived in provided indigent healthcare thru public hospitals and public health infrastructure.

To: GVTucker who wrote (136267)	5/29/2001 4:42:26 PM
From: Wyätt Gwyön	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 186894

OT-can't you deduct half or so of health insurance premiums if you're self-employed? i have always paid for my own insurance and find the cost inconsequential. of course, i had to change insurers last year after Fortis doubled their rates! i think it would be more of a problem for sick people, but for somebody who is relatively healthy and making a professional income, i don't see why insurance premiums would be a big incentive to work for the man. especially if one is in a skilled job where income is much higher without the employer filter.

To: GVTucker who wrote (136267)	5/29/2001 5:01:51 PM
From: Road Walker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 186894

GV, re: "Sure doctors can't think of a solution, that's because they're a major cause of the problem." That's a pretty broad generalization. Doctors are no different than oil companies, they charge what the market will accept. If heart surgery is in demand, and there are very few heart surgeons, it's going to be expensive. Then more folks will become heart surgeons. You say that there is an impending shortage of doctors, do you think that could be because many can't make a decent living, especially in rural areas? re: "John, you suggested a good solution, a true free market with no tax incentives that force us to get insurance from our employer. There's a big problem with that solution, though." If we return the medical care industry to a free market system, there is no reason we have to discontinue medicaid. There are millions of folks today that don't have health insurance, because their employer doesn't provide it, and the private rates are ridiculously high (to subsidize low cost employer insurance). Just because we take out the middleman, and let the insurance companies sell to the end user, it doesn't mean we can't have a safty net. The key to fixing the system is to have the end user make the purchase decisions. That's the only way that medical providers and insurance companies will start to compete on quality and price, and find innovative ways to please their customers sl that they gain marketshare from their competitors, just like any other business. The tax disincentive for private insurance is a good point, I hadn't thought of that part. Also, I think part of the current increasing medical costs are demographic. Another big increasing cost factor is the drug companies advertising very expensive drugs. The patients request the name brands from their doctors. John