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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: The Philosopher who wrote (16727)	6/14/2001 3:52:58 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

"I can't think of a single government that, peacefully and voluntarily reduced its powers by any substantial degree." There are all kinds of forceful means available out side of violent over throw. All of them require a beginning that coalesces consciousness to purposefully and personally sacrifice in a struggle of principle toward moral and ethical reform. I am not seeing it.

To: The Philosopher who wrote (16727)	6/14/2001 4:16:09 PM
From: thames_sider	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

I can't think of a single government that, peacefully and voluntarily reduced its powers by any substantial degree. Here I do disagree. LOL, does Scottish devolution count? The UK government has after all ceded them substantial powers of self-rule, excluding major fiscal policies and foreign/defence. And, again, the UK only recently gave the Bank of England absolute power to set interest rates - it would need another Act of Parliament to change that. (This would be theoretically possible, but I can't see it ever getting past either the public or the markets, it's too popular with both.). And any withdrawal - or taking - of power by a government could theoretically later be revoked by a successor. Alternatively, there's the ceding of various powers by most EU governments to the EU itself. And many democratic countries have agreed to limit their powers to prevent extradition - i.e., to shelter those accused of 'crimes against humanity' - where requested by courts of another country, or supra-national courts such as the Hague. But perhaps the best example is the massive relaxation of power/control over the individual throughout the former Warsaw Pact nations, and especially the ceding by the USSR of much former territory to new sovereign nations - which have then themselves allowed individuals more freedom. Certainly circumstances led to that - but it wasn't violent, and if not precisely chosen (as in desired) it was still voluntary.

To: The Philosopher who wrote (16727)	6/14/2001 4:33:11 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

I can't think of a single government that, peacefully and voluntarily reduced its powers by any substantial degree. There are examples of countries that have deregulated, including ours. Britain privatized a bunch of state-owned industries a while back and is less socialized than it once was. I've said this before but I'll say it again. I used to think that everything was a slippery slope but I've now lived long enough to see patterns of ebb and flow. I agree with you and Tim that the nanny state is addictive, but we've even backed off that a bit already. We can do more peacefully. Karen