To: Lane3 who wrote (18116 ) 7/13/2001 7:32:59 AM From: 2MAR$ Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 82486 I've asked Greg a couple of times about his insistence on arguing his faith as though it were logical or scientific. ...If Greg would just say that he had been graced by God with faith, I could accept that. I couldn't relate to it, but I could accept and respect it. I don't really no how much more simply or elegantly you could have put this Karen . He feels hurt that you choose not to believe in the same historicity based on "faith" , but in your own years of training, education , experience, heart and intellect.Another view was offered by the Danish philosopher of religion Soren Kierkegaard (1813-1855). He concluded that the basis for religion could never be found in history but could only come from faith. If one had faith, then certain historical materials would have religious significance. This has led to the development of fideism, i. e., a complete reliance on faith and rejection of science and philosophy in religious matters. infidels.org Skeptics view historical accounts of the supernatural, as an overcredulous acceptance of all claims in this ancient text as being true accounts. It would be as if a historian were to read in an ancient text an account of how a certain ancient prince slew a dragon with his pocket knife and concluded from this that dragons really existed. I would be far more receptive to greg , as well if he chose the approach you describe above , in conveying his choice of belief. Bringing history of fact and science into proving his cause has left him extremely vulnerable...it would be another matter if he chose to share experiences of unconditional love & divine grace , rather than the incessant manifest destiny of his own beliefs over all others.. as it is he's pretty much on ignore.... regards, Mars