To: Thomas A Watson who wrote (161266 ) 7/17/2001 1:15:56 AM From: D. Long Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769667 You are a lucky man Tom, and Im happy for you that you've managed to raise three good adults. That is commendable. I do not believe my comment was pessimistic, I believe it was pragmatic. Is it responsible to have children when you have neither the maturity nor the means to raise them? I have known too many whose childhoods were nightmares because of poverty, neglect, and resentment. I lean towards the opinion that responsibility does not begin and end at raising a child you did not intend to have. It is equally responsible to recognize in yourself a lack of maturity, or the recognition that you can not provide the kind of life any child deserves, financially or emotionally. This does not necessarily mean abortion, but I also know from personal experience that adoption and parental rights law is let us say less than adequate as an option. I understand your point of view, and do not believe that I do not hold a similiar position. I believe the primacy of one's right to one's life, which is a negative obligation on all others to non-interference. That is the basis of the Enlightenment philosophy at the heart of the Declaration and the Bill of Rights. But part of that right is therefore also the right to be selfish - and our obligation is to respect that, insofar as that selfishness does not interfere with our own rights. If a couple does not wish to have children, they have that right and no one can say otherwise. The question is, what are acceptable means of achieving that? I do not think you would argue against contraceptive measures as a Catholic, that is responsible behavior. But contraceptives are not by any means fool proof. The chances are still quite high even on deproprevara (sp?) that a pregnancy will occur. I've personally known cases myself. Adoption is an issue, but the legal status of the biological parents and various state law make adoption an iffy case sometimes, and if your child has any health defects, you will have a hard time finding adoptive parents. Finally, is abortion an alternative? Obviously you do not think so, I am undecided. Both on moral and social grounds. Derek