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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TimF who wrote (18742)	7/19/2001 5:49:52 PM
From: average joe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

...I guess I was 1/3 wrong and you were 2/3 wrong and any claim I might have made that you were completely wrong was inaccurate. I apologize for any inaccuracies. The dead salute and thank you. Do you really think it matters if 1,000,000 or 10,000,000 Jews died in the holocaust? Does the number really matter that much, to be technically correct? It's the thought that counts and murder is murder.

To: TimF who wrote (18742)	7/20/2001 4:17:47 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Solon its not just adding 2%. Its an embryo before 8 weeks not 3 months, or even 2 months. Before 8 weeks amounts to 36% of abortions per the AGI data. Not 90% or even 88%. True you did say "in the first three months", (after originally saying in the first three weeks) but you also said "on the embryo", and that is more important because the reason for your response was to refute my contention that fetuses are aborted not embryos Are you deliberately trying to feign obtuseness? It is an act, right? I could care less whether you call human growth an embryo or a fetus. What would that have to do with an argument for or against abortion?? You know very well that my opposition is not to carrying a pregnancy to term, but to depriving a human being of their ethical and legal RIGHTS. It has nothing to do with what you call the unborn tissue. I am not aware of you having made any contention that foetuses were being aborted instead of embryos. Why would that matter? I would not have been looking for such a ridiculous contention. Where did you make it? Are you changing your philosophy on abortion from the statements you made to me earlier as regards your opposition? You are absolutely off track. Naturally, for some people, the age of the unborn would have a bearing on their argument. And I respect that. But what is that to you? It doesn't have relevance for me except as it impacts on the increased risk to the mother. My understanding was that it did not to you, either (I COULD look up your post; my memory is quite clear on it). The vast majority of abortions are done in the first 84 days of pregnancy--as one would expect in an unwanted pregnancy. The few pregnancies occurring after this date are generally wanted pregnancies that require medical intervention for some reason. These are relatively rare, and are often extremely sad experiences for the mother. 88 % of abortions occur somewhat before the end of the first trimester. I am sure that both of us are happy for this fact (in the relative sense)--in spite of the fact that you (apparently) believe that they ought to be outlawed entirely. I used the word "embryo", precisely because in biology it refers to the unborn until birth, or sometimes later than birth. Humans have chosen to color the embryonic stage with fine hues--probably in order to better stumble their way through the ethical questions that the issues of abortion, ETC. are raising. However, I do not see any relevant distinctions in our discussion between blastocysts, zygotes, etc. There is absolutely nothing 2/3 rds wrong in my previous post. It was 100 % accurate, and was (indeed) corrected to address what appeared to be spurious opportunism on your part. Here is an excerpt; you seem to have accidentally missed it... "All I was trying to convey was that 90% of abortions take place in the first 3 months. Damn it: I did it again. I mean that 88% of abortions take place in the first 84 days. I am sorry that I confused you so that what I was meaning was not "obvious". I was not intentionally adding 2 % on to the total. I said 90 because another web site had given it as 90. I defer to your usage of 88. Now you tell me that you have an issue over whether we call the aborted cells foetuses or embryos? I guess you have decided to modify the reasoning for your opposition to include race, colour, size, age, etc. I don't mind that at all. Just so long as I know where you are coming from. But this is the first I have heard of this from you.