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Politics : Formerly About Applied Materials -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: robert b furman who wrote (49930)	7/29/2001 1:15:30 AM
From: BWAC	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

Robert, All this car dealer talk reminds me of the purchase I helped my wife make back when we were dating. What do some of these dealers not understand about "what is your best final price of the car"? She got the following answers at 4 different Ford dealers: 1.) $359 per month. (Which calculated out to 12.9% interest, 60 months btw) 2.) "Its on the Sticker" 3.) "You can lease it for $299 per month" 4.) "You tell us what you can afford for a monthly payment" Then one particular clown tries to explain that the price of the car is irrelevant, its what your monthly payment is. Thats where our focus should be. I must have been a particularly dumb looking Accountant that day or something! As for GMBuyPower. Its great if you know what vehicle you want. I bought a truck through it and was in and out in 30 minutes at the dealer. Price agreed upon with no waste of time. However, some dealers will respond with sales pitch stuff like "Come on in, and we'll discuss a price", or "plus tax tag and title" which isn't the final price you asked for, or something that is useless to the buyer. I got all kinds of responses from about 5 of them. Two were nice, 3 were a waste of time. I let the two have basically an auction between themselves to get the lowest price. I kept playing one against the other til I got what I wanted. But it was sure nice to deal from home, rather than play games all day at the dealer.

To: robert b furman who wrote (49930)	7/30/2001 2:33:03 PM
From: mitch-c	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

OT - car buying, internet resources A little desktop surfing can keep you from being burned by those guys. My first recommendation is a book I got a dozen years ago, before buying my first new vehicle. _Don't Get Taken Every Time_, by Remar Sutton. He describes psychological tricks in there that I had not heard of ... but I recognized when I saw them. (The colored pen trick was gratifying - I whipped out MY colored felt tip and scrawled over the "manager's" markings. That crap ended there. <g>) Next, the price-book folks (Edmunds, Kelly, etc.) have now become webbed. Check and compare pricing. Negotiate up from invoice, not down from sticker. Build a spreadsheet. I, too, used the GM website to line up what I wanted. The navigation through the vehicle lists was a bit clunky, but I ran the compare/contrast enough to get a good feel for what I wanted. However, I didn't get to negotiate (aww ... <g>) since I work for a GM supplier and got a better deal through that program than I could have possibly haggled on my own. However, even WITH that fixed deal in hand, I got the runaround from some dealerships - like an extra $2000 for a (mandatory) "wheel package" - as if the factory one wasn't good enough. The dealer I'd been buying parts from for years was especially bad ... after the third trip the sales guy took to "see his manager" for ninety minutes, I loudly and publicly walked. (This was on a fixed-price deal, too!) Last comment - the "payment" approach is intended to let them make you dizzy with the numbers (price, trade, and financing). It's three-card monte, just as you see on NYC streetcorners. Nail each number individually - sequentially - and you take this away. Many dealers are realizing that their "secret numbers" (invoice, holdback, incentives, etc.) are now publicly and easily available, and they're changing. The web is making them honest. I actually did miss the chance to haggle a bit; a dozen years ago, I scored an excellent deal by assembling a spreadsheet. Then, every time the guy tried to bump me, I pointed to the printout and repeated (with a straight face <g>) "But that's not what the computer says." Since it matched his "secret numbers" to the penny, he had a hard time arguing with my absent, impartial, and presumed infallible (ha! <g>) PC. The best way to mess with a car salesman's head is to have a few secret phrases ("But, honey, ...") that serve as a simon-says. All else should be a semi-rehearsed act that both shoppers know is BS. You can have FUN that way ... - Mitch