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To: Ilaine who wrote (6841)8/7/2001 10:46:43 AM
From: PMG  Respond to of 74559
 
I'm fine with "the Chinese". And of course there ARE differences between people. It would be silly to ignore that. And if there are differences, the next logical step is to label the differences and to judge about these differences. That's the way social reality is created.

Of course, this is still explosive (prejudice, ideology, fascism, legitimation of human rights infringements etc.)

It is also a good thing that people have become touchy when you talk about differences in respect to countries or ethnic groups....



To: Ilaine who wrote (6841)8/7/2001 11:35:24 AM
From: Moominoid  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 74559
 
Or at least recognize that the people at the top of the heap in China have always been extremely civilized and cultured, even if we don't like their politics?

I wouldn't call the Cultural Revolution very civilized for a start. In fact it was the opposite of civilization. That's just a recent example.

And isn't it important to note that in China, a hard-working diligent young man always had a chance to move up in the world, in contradiction to cultures which are being advanced as bastions of civilization?

Weren't there slaves in China?

On the other hand I find Western and particularly American criticism of China today to be hypocritical.

Sorry to keep criticizing what you've written....

David



To: Ilaine who wrote (6841)8/8/2001 12:27:24 AM
From: JRI  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 74559
 
CoBalt- I'm a little perplexed at your sensitivity to what you consider even a "whiff" of prejudice and/or stereotyping.

Isn't it the most illogical of things to assume that all people, everywhere are exactly the same when it comes to temperament or work ethic or .... I mean, everyone around the world grows up and is educated/raised within a different milieu, be it social, economic, historical, weather-related, geography-related, you name it. And all those things have consequences on behavior patterns. I also think it is illogic that you are not allowed to identify behavior patterns among certain cultural/racial groups. Of course, this doesn't mean that everyone in that group acts a particular way, just that there can be more of a tendency, v-s-v your comparative cultural/group.

I see the problem opposite of you. I think people are so sensitive to recognizing (or better said, ALLOWING WITHIN PUBLIC DISCOURSE) these differences between cultures, that we don't allow ourselves to learn from the "superior" group as to why they are better at a particular thing. Important to my thesis, is the belief that no one race/gender/etc. is fundamentally "better" as a being than other (how big of me, eh?), ie., every race/cultural group etc. has the innate ability to be the "hardest-working", "most thrifty", etc., but because of the previously-listed reasons, or others, they may not be.

The crime, in my mind, is not that someone recognizes the Germans as more "efficient", and another group as less "efficient". Rather, the crime is that other groups do not learn from the supposed German efficiency, and improve themselves as a result. Additionally, I do believe, of course, it is wholely illogical to assume EVERY German is efficient (assuming the facts are right here....however, stereotypes are often established because of common recognized experience), nor that all members of another group are not efficient. Of course, it is illogical to apply a common stereotype to any particular member within that group on an individual basis.

That is, perhaps, where I can see you reason for
to be sensitive. Look, I grew up in the South, and had to constantly face a barrage of stereotypes, etc. when working in NYC area, and although I personally felt it was wrong for someone to apply that to me (because it didn't apply, because I was a very "unSouthern" Southerner, and, that could be easily recognized, if one thought a bit...)

However, despite this, I couldn't disagree with some of the "collective" understanding of the Southern culture (in aggregate) that seemed to exist, because, in aggregate, it was true.

I guess I'm surprised at your sensitivity given your (interesting) knowledge of ancient cultures and how you understand that some cultures thousands of years ago were more advanced in some ways than some of my poor Alabama-farming roots family less than a century ago...Pardon the bad pun, but I have no problem calling a spade in spade in such cases, and don't understand why you do. Of course, again, on an individual basis, one can assume nothing.

Sorry if I've rambled a bit...its getting late....and I am not the most efficient <G> And I definitely spell like a Southerner too...g