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To: AC Flyer who wrote (7009)	8/13/2001 12:14:10 AM
From: Don Lloyd	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

AC - ...Your point of view is colored by long-term social indoctrination and an unreasonable belief in the power of government regulation. ... This is another example of the superior multi-level effectiveness of American Government Public schools. Even if the mind control and the destruction of independent thought are not completely successful, few of its detainees survive with the ability or desire to read, let alone think about what they have read. Regards, Don

To: AC Flyer who wrote (7009)	8/13/2001 12:21:08 AM
From: elmatador	Respond to of 74559

Environment worries are for VIs! The forecasters can't get right 7 days in advance in a SMALL TOWN. But they claim they get right for the WHOLE WORLD in 100 years! Let the VIs send their money to Greenpeace.

To: AC Flyer who wrote (7009)	8/13/2001 12:37:38 AM
From: smolejv@gmx.net	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

It's not the computers, it's a body of evidence: Message 15985133 I share your faith in free markets and in the invisible hand of capitalism. I would add also its (their) readiness to adjust and to learn from experience. Re cost of addressing or not adressing the problems, first, it does not cost anything to be aware of them. And, second, as we all have to realize and resign to, it would cost politians dearly (for instance W his Pennsilvania Ave address) if they addressed the problems the wrong;/ way. dj

To: AC Flyer who wrote (7009)	8/13/2001 2:29:40 AM
From: Moominoid	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

You seem to ignore the problem of market failure where polluters pass off the costs of pollution on to the rest of society. The problem is that when oil declines in availablity coal will still be extremely cheap and emits more carbon than either oil or gas. I do believe that technological change will by then have made alternatives a lot cheaper than now. I don't believe in heavy government regulation but rather a helping hand for the invisible hand. One mechanism that regulation-fanatics don't like to look at is the role of litigation by aggrieved individuals and organizations who could sue the coal producers etc. for causing global warming. The threat of potential litigation (both direct costs and poor publicity) is driving a lot of green behavior by companies. Here, the government role is to allow such threat of litigation.

To: AC Flyer who wrote (7009)	8/13/2001 7:20:36 AM
From: PMG	Respond to of 74559

<<<You need to get down off your high horse for a moment>>> <<<Your point of view is colored by long-term social indoctrination and an unreasonable belief in the power of government regulation.>>> <g>

To: AC Flyer who wrote (7009)	8/13/2001 10:20:28 AM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

>>I believe that the solution to global warming is the same as the solution to all other human problems - free markets and the invisible hand of capitalism.<< Sorry, but that's a bad argument. I will give you a list of problems for which there is no free market solution, that all libertarians agree require government action: 1. Crime - murder, robbery, rape, pedophilia, arson, embezzlement, etc. 2. War. 3. Enforcement of contracts and covenants. If someone refuses to honor a contract or pay a bill, the only way to protect the right of the other party is through the use of force, either through self-help, or with the help of sheriffs and courts. Self-help consists of seizing some property and selling it. Civil litigation gives you a judgment so you can garnish wages or put a lien on property. When I first started doing collections, I was sort of shocked at how much force is involved. I've seen a judge order a defendant to empty out his pockets and his wallet and hand his money and his watch over to the plaintiff. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Many, but not all, libertarians agree that there is justification for the government to be involved in the following: 4. Public health. If someone wants to dump feces or poison into water, what's the free market solution? It's far less trouble to just dump everything into the sewer, and leave your garbage in the street. It's cheaper not to put scrubbers on smokestacks and catalytic converters on cars. Remember Typhoid Mary? She was a cook who was immune to typhoid, but carried it all her life. She would go to work for a family, and they'd all get typhoid. Then she'd have to get another job. She was either too ignorant to understand that she was a danger or didn't care. She would change her name to avoid the authorities. Eventually they had no choice but to lock her up. 5. Public safety. Some people don't really want to make sure their cars are safe - and they don't have the money to pay a judgment if their brakes fail and they kill someone. Other people like to drive drunk. So the only way to make sure the rest of us are safe is to make it illegal to drive a car that hasn't passed inspection, and to drive with a BAC (blood alcohol level) over .10. Trust me, there really is no free market solution to DWI - I've represented hundreds of indigent people for DWI, in court-appointed cases. Even if you made them the slave of the person they injured, most of them would cost more to take care of than they were worth. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Global warming is a public health and safety issue. If your rights infringe on my rights, and we can't resolve the issue peacefully, what is the solution? Either we fight, and the stronger prevails, or a neutral third party resolves the issue for us. Government is the neutral third party.