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To: Poet who wrote (416)	8/19/2001 10:58:36 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 51759

Everyone who would matter to us gets it. We are all just people. On SI we are people holding a very wide spectrum of views. There is, for example, a person on SI who practices some sort of religion by numerology. I can't say I completely understand it, nor have I ever met anyone like that in 3d. He's actually a pretty nice guy- I just can't get past his constant, and long, numero/religious posts. It is very interesting to see the thoughts of people whom you would never meet, or at least never get to know closely enough to have them unburden their deepest thoughts and beliefs to you. Of course some unburdenings I don't need to see over and over again. Not because I think they are absolutely wrong, but they are not in harmony with my view of the world. Why wouldn't a person- at least ultimately- surround themselves with friendship, beauty, harmony, kindness, authentic accomplishments? I've no idea. You find on SI that argument brings nothing. Constructive engagement, I believe that is what Kholt calls it, changes nothing. And ugliness is generally the result when people of extremely different views butt heads. There seems to be ugliness even when people of like minds get together sometimes. Of course it is frequently ugliness in a "cause". It is ok (I'm guessing based on behavior observed) to say the most vile things about people in service of a higher purpose. The end, in other words, justifies the means. I don't think so. I used to think arguing served a purpose. But it doesn't. It only demarcates the lines of belief, so that like humans can accrete on either side of the line.

To: Poet who wrote (416)	8/19/2001 9:39:27 PM
From: Win Smith	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 51759

Do you ever watch "The Sopranos", Poet? I watch the first couple episodes on tape last night , and had a mixed reaction. Seemed well done, gritty, sort of Goodfellas-like in its view of the mob. Not very uplifting though, and definitely not something to watch with the kids. Nancy Marchand was a trip.

To: Poet who wrote (416)	8/20/2001 2:03:26 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 51759

Poet, when the insults fly try to remember this - I find it helpful (I also think of the ignore function as a way of not accepting the gift of insults. I read this story to my son- who is sometimes insulted at school. It has made him feel much better about himself. The insult, after all, reflects on the giver, not really on the person being insulted): The Gift of Insults There once lived a great warrior. Though quite old, he still was able to defeat any challenger. His reputation extended far and wide throughout the land and many students gathered to study under him. One day an infamous young warrior arrived at the village. He was determined to be the first man to defeat the great master. Along with his strength, he had an uncanny ability to spot and exploit any weakness in an opponent. He would wait for his opponent to make the first move, thus revealing a weakness, and then would strike with merciless force and lightning speed. No one had ever lasted with him in a match beyond the first move. Much against the advice of his concerned students, the old master gladly accepted the young warrior's challenge. As the two squared off for battle, the young warrior began to hurl insults at the old master. He threw dirt and spit in his face. For hours he verbally assaulted him with every curse and insult known to mankind. But the old warrior merely stood there motionless and calm. Finally, the young warrior exhausted himself. Knowing he was defeated, he left feeling shamed. Somewhat disappointed that he did not fight the insolent youth, the students gathered around the old master and questioned him. "How could you endure such an indignity? How did you drive him away?" "If someone comes to give you a gift and you do not receive it," the master replied, "to whom does the gift belong?"