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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (24031)	8/22/2001 3:58:55 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Karen, this is a little too coy for reality. "The OP definition according to brees on the table is everyone who is not a PM, particularly X and maybe Solon. If I'm reading you correctly. You still decline to elaborate further on the essence of the OP group? I would prefer a characterization rather than a list of one or two people." You proposed the terms OP and PM. YOU distinguished the OPs as other than PMs. I could clearly read between the lines who you were hoping to implicate and involve in this. Sorry to disappoint you but if you want to start generating a list go ahead. The color of your deceit is starting to bleed through the veil. I didn't think you were proposing an honest debate but I gave you the benefit of the doubt. If you want to propose a group with characteristics to contrast with PMs feel free, just take a little more responsibility in the matter. "If I'm reading you correctly." No, but I got your number, don't I. Now scuffle off back into your closet, so's the rest of us can follow the choreograph.

To: Lane3 who wrote (24031)	8/22/2001 4:26:13 PM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

Okay, Karen, it is 4:00, and I can wait no longer: We actually know what happens when the OP viewpoint becomes pervasive, and begins to seriously vie with the PM viewpoint. We tried it in the post- War period, especially during what are called the 60s, although it started earlier with Dr. Spock, Hugh Hefner, the Beatniks, the popularization of Freud, and such other 50s phenomena. Since autonomy is the watchword, we are not supposed to impose discipline, beyond what is unavoidable, but instead we are to help children discover themselves and their values. We are not supposed to be judgmental, and therefore impose informal "social sanctions" on our acquaintances. People decide that their mission in life is to find themselves, and engage in various therapies, fads, and boondoggles, some merely fatuous, some quite dangerous, like "Tune In, Turn On, Drop Out", assuming you do not lose your wits in a bad trip or become a stone- cold junkie. The divorce rate accelerates, as does the rate of out- of- wedlock births. Drug use becomes pervasive, and increasing numbers succumb to serious abuse. Children increasingly grow up in emotionally insecure and financially deprived circumstances, and the rate of juvenile crime accelerates, with the startling emergence of "superpredators", an unusual number of youthful sociopaths. A new coarseness is introduced into public life, as sincerity is valued over courtesy, and self- expression becomes more valuable than having anything much to say. Cynicism about the motives and personalities of those who profess to live by duty or call upon others to fulfill theirs becomes pervasive, and spills over into cynicism about all culture- forming institutions: the government, the churches, the schools, the family. The sense of the rightness of democracy is damaged, and doctrines like "moral equivalence" lead to a relaxation of vigilance in dealing with the Soviet Union that encourages adventurism and threatens to rend NATO. The sense of having advanced as a society is damaged by constantly harping on historical iniquities like slavery or the Trail of Tears, so that Americans will feel like hypocrites and get off of everyone else's back. Then everyone can do their own thing! Fortunately, of course, the PMs fought back, and, in the 80s, elected Ronald Reagan and George Bush. But then came Clinton, who held the Bible and talked about those who play by the rules, but turned out to be an OP extraordinaire, with the moral compass of a Tinker Toy......