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To: Joe NYC who wrote (54931)	9/13/2001 12:16:30 AM
From: Mani1	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 275872

Re <<I am by no means an expert, but it appears that there is something about islam and a free market (necessary for prosperity etc), which is that they seem mutually exclusive. >> I agree, you are by no means an expert. And none experts should refrain from making broad, mean spirited generalization that can do no good but to be hurtful. It is hard enough dealing with all the stuff that is happening specially if it brings back vivid memory about your loved ones. Mani

To: Joe NYC who wrote (54931)	9/13/2001 12:40:04 AM
From: Dan3	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 275872

Re: Even the treasure they were born on top of (oil) has not been enough to build a sustainable economic model Warning - late night not really serious rant follows: It may be that future proceeds from oil sales sourced in the persian gulf will be needed to fund the NATO anti-terrorist program. Too bad for Libya, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc. but they just haven't been adequate stewards for that resource. Seizing the funding stream that is middle eastern oil sales and using that money to keep US, British, French, Russian, and other troops stationed in the theatre (500,000 to 1 million troops - indefinitely) won't eliminate terrorism. But it isn't eliminated now. Such an action would certainly reduce terrorism. A sort of reverse Iron Curtain, to keep the bad guys in. Let's face it, the nuts who did this are already dead. From our perspective, these people are sick and "punishing" them is pretty much impossible. They claim material things don't matter and they'd rather die than put up with western culture - and some have them have confirmed such words with deeds. I don't think we can intimidate such people with threats of retribution for what we consider to be misdeeds. What we can do is to keep them isolated from our society, and we can take away the products of Judeo-Christian civilization. Food and water should be made available, and the materials to gain more (horse drawn plows, etc.), but things like printing presses, telephones, motorized vehicles - sorry, but not allowed. Heck, that stuff just distracts from appreciating the Koran, anyway. A combined Unites States, Russian,Canadian, British, French, German, and Japanese force would be able to go through these areas and remove all advanced technology in a fairly short period of time. Then the region could be subdivided and the pieces sealed off. Then the survivors (I'm sure there'd be quite a bit of resistance when it came time to give up the guns) can do whatever they want - we won't bother them with our decadent TV, etc. and we won't let them bother us. Everybody will be happy. Stability of the western world will be greatly increased if a few hundred thousand well paid Russian soldiers are sending their paychecks home every month. With that kind of base, the Russian economy should get back to a decent level fairly quickly (which would be a good thing for the whole world). We'll be using middle eastern oil to pay for it all, but the locals didn't even know that stuff was there until we found it, so they shouldn't worry about it now. Without the distractions of decadent western society, the good mullah fearing middle-easterners can wallow in religious righteousness. Any residents who prefer a less godly life style, and are willing to go through a series of polygraph examinations while heavily sedated to show they aren't kidding, would be welcome to join us sinners in the western world. But for those who don't like western ways, we won't bother them, and we won't let them bother us.

To: Joe NYC who wrote (54931)	9/13/2001 2:08:26 AM
From: tejek	Respond to of 275872

I am by no means an expert, but it appears that there is something about islam and a free market (necessary for prosperity etc), which is that they seem mutually exclusive. Even the treasure they were born on top of (oil) has not been enough to build a sustainable economic model, and even the richest Persian Gulf countries will collapse when the oil runs out. Joe, actually, there is something about Judiasm that encourages persecution. ted

To: Joe NYC who wrote (54931)	9/13/2001 3:03:18 AM
From: tejek	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 275872

I am by no means an expert, but it appears that there is something about islam and a free market (necessary for prosperity etc), which is that they seem mutually exclusive. Even the treasure they were born on top of (oil) has not been enough to build a sustainable economic model, and even the richest Persian Gulf countries will collapse when the oil runs out. Joe, what is your point other than to cause Mani to smash his keyboard and Kash to pull out his hair? You make generalizations about whole groups of people that have no basis in fact. You are so tight in your focus, in your view that there is no room to breathe, let alone move. If someone like you were making the decision to give the Zionists Israel 50 years, the Zionists would have been turned down. Your concluding statement for the rejection would have gone something like this: "In quick review, the Jews lost their homeland long ago, most likely will not be able to establish a new one without the help of gov't intervention; these people have a tendency towards avarice which often leads to the amassing of temporary wealth, encouraging enmity and persecution from their neighbors and usually leading to their uprooting and a move to a new location to start all over. Their nomadic existence encourages the avarice, which, in turn, encourages the persecution which leads to their uprooting and having to relocate. This cycle has been repeated over and over for hundreds of years. Its very unlikely that the cycle can be broken even with the infusion of huge sums of money and even then, there is no guarantee of success. Plus the proposed location is mostly desert with few natural resources. The likelihood that these Jews can make a success of such a location is slim to none. Already their proposed neighbors, the Arabic states, are complaining. These states are well established and have some military capability. The Jews have virtually none...in fact, they prefer not to fight. Any confrontation will lead to their annihilation. I have looked for some redeeming quality re these Jews and can find very few. Therefore, it is my recommendation that their petition for a nation state in the Palestinian area of the middle east be rejected." Luckily for the Zionists, someone gave them the chance to prove themselves. ted