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To: elpolvo who wrote (5655)	9/13/2001 1:38:28 PM
From: Clappy	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 104155

this ain't war. Neither is the War on Drugs. Up to now our war on terrorists has been just as effective. In many people's eyes, if Bush does not destroy masses of terrorists, he will be looked at as being less effective than his father. In addition... Bush's inability to communicate with his mouth is going to be replaced with communication via action. People are looking for any excuse to rally around him. So far he has come off looking fairly weak, slow moving, and afraid. His advisors appear to be much better leaders than himself. Colon Powell is displaying himself to be a much better leader than anyone, right now. He is saying the right thing and sounds convincing. He's saying what Bush should be communicating to us. Bush is failing to grab the moment right now. He's not easing any pain or helping to calm the public. To make up for all this he is going to have to erase the terrorists from the face of the Earth. I doubt there will be any trials. Thousands of troops will probably be deployed to flush out these hidden groups. Not just in Afganistan. In all countries where they hide, prevent a threat, or where it is strategic for us to find them... Eventually, somehow, oil will be an integral part of this. Iraq and Iran are probably not safe. This terrorist action might turn out to be the excuse that our military was waiting for. It gives them a cause to rally troops and sell to the public. This could get very ugly.

To: elpolvo who wrote (5655)	9/13/2001 1:43:23 PM
From: Clappy	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 104155

Some good news if you haven't heard yet. 5 firemen have been rescued alive! 2 of which walked out on their own power after a crane freed them from what ever they were caught under. This is amazing!!! Great news!!!

To: elpolvo who wrote (5655)	9/13/2001 2:05:43 PM
From: altair19	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 104155

I have a different point of view. I definitely see this as a war....not the kind we've had in past history, but certainly a war. When you deal with fanatics you can be certain of three things.....they are predictable in that they will never change, they are smart, and entirely belief-driven...willing to die and become martyrs. With this in mind, you set the pattern on the surface "you hit me and I'll hit back harder every time!" Under the surface, you get back in the intelligence (and counter intelligence)game in a big way. We have swung back into a benign approach the past 8-10 years; fanatics deal face to face in small cells of operations; that's the game we need to play...and we still know how to do it. The mistake these folks made was to wake us up....we don't like to operate the way we are going to have to....very few people do.....BUT....we do know how to do it...and now we may have the will. Freedoms are hard fought treasures with incredibly sad down payments. This "war" requires two tracks, the first being a visible and stunning response once we are sure of the instigators, and second, the long term systematic approach of intelligence gathering and networked alliances whose focus is to continually and relentlessly search and destroy these operations at the sources. These bastards changed all the rules on Tuesday and they are going to pay for it. Altair19

To: elpolvo who wrote (5655)	9/13/2001 2:38:09 PM
From: Clappy	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 104155

* New edited version* One other thing I've noticed is our new found friendship with Pakistan (once again). If you look at a map of Afghanistan you see the Arabian Sea. On the west is Iran. I don't think we will be making nice-nice with them any time soon. Pakistan is to the east. It allows us to bring our troops from the boats to land and then work their way up to strategic points throughout Pakistan and over into Afghanstan. map: lib.utexas.edu Here's a map that shows a bigger area. lib.utexas.edu Pakistan is going to be our good buddies very soon. We are going to suckle them. The Pakistanies will make the Kuwaities look like adopted red headed step brothers... We need them more than anyone over there. From there we can get to Iran as well. Use the excuse of keeping the world safe to topple their gov't. On to Iraq... Oil prices are going to drop some day. Iran and Iraq may someday become a UN oil field. Our economies will be saved. Whirled peas. Can you visualize it? Bush may try to sell it... Just ramblin'... Just a jackass. Not meant to antagonize ya. Just to point out how it's possible this may lead to something very big and bad. I wonder if China will side with Afghanistan, and the others... -JacAshi

To: elpolvo who wrote (5655)	9/15/2001 11:57:43 AM
From: elpolvo	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 104155

update! two days ago i wrote: this is a criminal incident. no nation in the world is supporting the actions or the criminals that brought about this tragedy. murders and suicides happen every day. mass murders are especially horrible and tragic. this act calls for criminal investigation, criminal prosecution, and judicial punishment. every nation in the world will work together toward that end. this ain't war. america has chosen to see it differently. we have declared it war. soooo... there you have it. this IS war. -soldier boy