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Politics : Formerly About Applied Materials -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jerome who wrote (52087)	9/14/2001 10:20:08 AM
From: Fred Levine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

Jerome-- Before answering your question, one of the things that I am proud of is that there are no hate demonstrations among either the victims or the family of the victims. When I see the beginnings of aftermath, it is dominated by compassion and concern for the victims. I cannot help but sadly contrast this with the rejoicing in the streets of the Arab world, and with the screams for vengence on either the US or Israel after Israeli retaliations. We have all seen the American flag burned while threats are hurled. I see mourning and unification in the US, and determination. I say this not to incite, but to alert us to the nature of our enemy. Their culture and values are different, and I would be ashamed and opposed if vengence became our motive. However, the first function of any government is to assure safety. In the long run, I agree with Jerome and Brian and Sam that collective positive interests are the best method, if not the only method, of assuring safety. In the short run, none of us want to see more innocents killed, and IMO, a measured military response is required. Revenge and hatred is alien to our values. In addition, I am also proud that our entire national concern has been with the safety of the people afflicted. I haven't seen anyone concerned with the property loss. It is irrelevent and trivial by comparison. Finally, before retaliating, the Israeli military holds a secret trial of the target, complete with a defense. Certainly, it does not hold up to the requirements of civil courts and I would hate to be on trial. Because it is secret, I have no idea how many people are acquitted. But it is an attempt not to rush to judgment. Interesting, the Talmud only allows appeals of judges decisions under two conditions. One is in capital cases, which is extremely restricted, and the other is when the judges, I'm not sure of the number but I believe it is 13, vote unanimously. The reason for appeal of unanimous verdicts is to avoid a rush to judgment. Also-- I think there has to be something wrong if 13 Jews agree on anything. fred

To: Jerome who wrote (52087)	9/14/2001 11:13:22 AM
From: Fred Levine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

This from The Russia Journal: Kremlin’s help may be conditional MOSCOW - Promising to help the stricken United States, Kremlin sought to pursue its own interests, reports The Times today. According to the newspaper, Moscow is likely to demand that the US drops its plans to build an anti-missile defense shield. Then, Russia may reassess its own difficult history of conflict with Muslim radicals. Russia also stands to gain if the West comes round to its belief that ruthlessness is a legitimate response to terrorism, it is said in the article. However, active Russian support for any military response directed against Afghanistan would vastly increase America’s chances of success in hunting down the perpetrators of Tuesday’s terrorist attacks, The Times writes. A generation of modern military engagement on either side of the old Soviet-Afghan frontier has given Russian forces enormous know-how about logistics, terrain and even the personalities of fighters in the Central Asian region. Washington is planning to send US Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage to Moscow, reports de l'Agence France-Presse (AFP) today. The policy towards Afghanistan will be the main theme of the talks of the American diplomat and Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Trubnikov. According to AFP, these consultations have been organized in connection with possible retaliatory measures for the terrorist acts in the United States. The US authorities held talks with the Pakistani authorities tonight. Pakistan is under pressure now to close its borders and open its airspace in the event of a US attack against terrorists. However, the position of Pakistan remains unclear so far. fred

To: Jerome who wrote (52087)	9/14/2001 11:32:29 AM
From: daryll40	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

Jerome, I can assure you that mere "average" people like me are no where near privvy to the internal workings of the Mossad, the Israeli FBI/CIA. Nevertheless, remember that in spite of all that you see, Israel still supplies water and electricity to the Palestinians. In other words, their actions, while not portrayed as so on CNN, show that they generally only do violent acts IN REACTION to violence by the Palestinians. Frankly, I think the Palestinians dancing in the streets is the exposes the biggest lie of the whole Middle East debate. Shooting Palestinians for calling Peres or Sharon a fat slob would hardly happen.