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Pastimes : An Eye for an Eye -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: GROUND ZERO™ who wrote (215)	9/16/2001 3:27:02 AM
From: CIMA	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 505

An Afghan-American speaks: You can't bomb us back into the Stone Age. We're already there. But you can start a new world war, and that's exactly what Osama bin Laden wants.- - - - - - - - - - - - By Tamim AnsarySept. 14, 2001 \| I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on San Francisco's KGO Talk Radio, conceded today that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done." And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived in the United States for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters. But the Taliban and bin Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats' nest of international thugs holed up in their country. Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan -- a country with no economy, no food. There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban. We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and healthcare? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans; they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban -- by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time. So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that, folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. And guess what: That's bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the West. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the West wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose; that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong -- in the end the West would win, whatever that would mean -- but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else?

To: GROUND ZERO™ who wrote (215)	9/16/2001 8:41:05 PM
From: Eddy Blinker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 505

<<<you only want to advance your political agenda against Bush.....>>> Ground Zero, While I agree with you that I do not know with certainty that Air Force One was a target I don`t see how you can detect that I have a agenda against President Bush. The only topic I have presently on my agenda is that public licensed broadcasters are withholding vital information in the information age and the distribution of unverified and therefore possibly false information.In both cases steering the world public into the wrong direction and into harms way, while accumulating, profits & enforcing a political platform of their own. Very much and very similar what one sees happening on Wall Street every day. AKA CCN coverage of present chapter of the ongoing dispute with Saddam Hussain in IRAK. The reason why I would like to see the Bush Team thinking about how to censor or even suspend the broadcasting license of CNN is because this Medium is clearly on government record to show that on the weight scale of the newly proclaimed war agenda against terrorism this Medium could not qualify because it is neglecting it`s caring duty by not informing and alerting the world public about the the tremendous possibilities of death on hand and serious destruction associated with the existence and perhaps already in the USA stored nerve gas developed by Saddam Hussain of IRAK. This Medium has a duty in return for the license given by the American People to inform about danger and peril. There is no excuse available for CCN to defeat my argument that they are de facto aiding the enemy of the USA by concealing this to imminent danger pointing material fact which is nerve gas. Filling churches with double faced characters and playing upon Royal Order patriotic American Tunes is fine and good but in view of present looming scenario it is like watching demons getting their 6 packs of BUD and fire up the grill. What about the Nerve Gas of which one single drop can kill hundreds of thousands? Is the American Government presently in the hands of political blackmail as animated in countless Hollywood movies? President Bush Sr. President Clinton and now President Bush Jr. all know of the existence of the nerve gas. The existence of the gas is as sure as the shadow follows the sun.Amen. If it is as effective as claimed I don`t even want to imagine. The form of delivery and the readiness to apply was demonstrated in a demonstrative symbolic act. Yes, Ground Zero NYC was not the main act but a symbolic act IMHO. Macabre indeed but the lunatic possibly enjoys all those candles lit in gratitude to him to get away alive this time. CNN can not excuse itself with the possible panic argument or because it does not want to annoy the Pentagon with possible ensuing lawsuits from Gulf War Veterans, This type of excuse is in view of the daily looming general deadly consequences not cutting through the mustard*1 000 000 gas. It is the caring duty of CNN to inform firstly and not setting up the camera team to let survivors tell their horror stricken stories after all their relatives are dead. The very least CCN could have organised is to get some bio tech poison experts before their cameras to inform and instruct the public how to tread this matter in case of attack and and survive. Instead CCN and the shower of hens this Medium employs (besides the very few genuine heads like Lois of course )are fuelling the fires of war and destruction by prominently displaying old familiar faces who couldn't prevent with all their past expertise the NYC mass murder. To me this is the act of a lunatic employing genuinely in religious causes believing youngsters and training them to commit suicide to propel their own cause forward showing to the eager rest how " easy it is to make a difference ". They don`t need air planes. The mad man whoever he is has thousands of volunteers and all they need is a little bottle. Nostradamus is dead and whatever he said may or may not be applicable. Saddam is alive and has the nerve gas. The Clinton Administration has not addressed the matter with the vigour called for/required and the safety aspect dictated too. And all the self glorification like this one from Americas seemingly safest state Nebraska. state.gov can not over paint the neglected "safety first aspect" to which all Americans subscribe as the Nr.1 priority in their lives. I lived long enough there so I know. The past administration has failed miserably to follow up on the mad man and his genie bottles. So did investigative journalism. A sorry state of affairs. "Let me describe the elements of that strategy going forward. First, we will maintain a strong military presence in the area, and we will remain ready to use it if Saddam tries to rebuild his weapons of mass destruction, strikes out at his neighbours, challenges allied aircraft, or moves against the Kurds. We also will continue to enforce no-fly zones in the North, and from the southern suburbs of Baghdad to the Kuwaiti border. " state.gov NOTHING apparently was done ever since. So tell me Ground Zero why would I be against President`s Bush agenda? I subscribe fully to his agenda and so would have 500 Germans now buried in the NYC rubble. But I am not subscribing with joy and jubilation before this colossal problem Sadamm Hussain and the incorporated issue of nerve gas is dealt with. How college educated human beings can refuse to acknowledge that in order to produce the final product of the nerve gas a underground laboratory of modest size will suffice to kill the entire world- is a real mystery to me. In addition of his entire administration knowing from past experience what a devilish lunatic this Saddam is, I can not understand why not a single alarm bell went off. Even now. Today. If the past President finds the time to fool around with girls and has the time to make sure that a international swindler of great calibre get`s pardoned in the last minutes in office then I find it most peculiar when there was nothing coming forward from the President which would comfort the world that they can trust the USA of being vigilant at all times- in return for their subscription to the American Way of doing things. But now in 2001 exchanging metal knives in air planes which are of so insignificant striking power that IMO a terrorist wouldn't even consider them to clean his fingernails with,- for plastic knifes- which can be remodeled into deadly daggers in seconds, do not and can not satisfy. And neither will people subscribe to years of terror of new little Hitlers and religious Dr.Goebels who now with President Bush jr. on the power wheel hear their religious callings confirmed. Consequently making our lives miserable in their haunt for illusive "terrorists" in the mountains of Pakistan wearing a gas mask from morning to evening when right here in front of all our doorsteps we have the local gas man ready to deliver. Of course I speak only for myself. I am nobody. So treat my post as you like. But at least inform yourself fully before you start splitting hairs with me. The words Nerve Gas can not confuse anyone. Regards, ED