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To: Crimson Ghost who wrote (76725)	9/17/2001 7:16:26 AM
From: Enigma	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116838

There have been some sinister and chilling overtones on this thread. I suggested that we are seeing a sort of Neo MaCarthysm emerging from certain posters who are wrapping themselves in the flag. Perhaps it is going farther than we realise and I'd like to see a statement of intent from at least two of these posters - namely gold_tutor and Abner Hosmer (AKA Tom Byron). The former talks about compiling lists the latter used the word 'we' in a reply to another poster - as in 'we thank you' - not, you might notice 'thanks' or 'I thank you'. We're told that we are 'at war'. It is my strong hunch that editors of all the media - print and on the air' have been called in and told to censor the news. That is why I find the reporting from abroad much more informative and less restricted But this time it's different - we have the Internet which has empowered the people. But there can be no doubt IMO that all messages are being monitored. So, Rose, just what are you doing with your little lists? And, Tom, what are you up to? Do you respect the greatest freedom we all share - or are you and some others here trying to sick 'the authorities' on all dissent. I believe we all need to know.

To: Crimson Ghost who wrote (76725)	9/17/2001 8:03:24 AM
From: E. Charters	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116838

The Soviet Union and US and Britain had fought during the Menshevik-Bolshevik conflict in a way, but later they got together to fight a common enemy. It could be that bin Laden and the Iraquis recognize the US as a common enemy in the same way. It is also very true that bin Laden is running out of places to hide in the open. Iraq, if it is not invadable, might be such a place. Also the Iraquis desperately need a facilitator and bin Laden is one such miracle worker to the Arabs. He is a practical construction guy and he can get things done and built and this must be attractive to both of them. It is also true that as aggressive and bellicose as Baghdad is, the Babylonians have never gone far from their borders in thousands of years and could not defeat a weakened Iran. It may be that the Saudis recognize that historical precedent and as weak as their own army is, they know that Baghdad would not risk an adventure that far afield into the Peninsula again. But if the Iraquis backed bin Laden at a palace coup against the Saudis (who he must now bitterly resent), and that also had popular support, what could the Syrians, Egyptians, or the US do? Again that has to look good to the Iraquis. They would get enormous influence in the area, and possibly and anti US oil coalition. Would the US put down a popular revolt against the Saudis? Is such a thing possible? The answer is yes and yes. It may not appear that people are seething in discontent in Saudi Arabia but to many it would have appeared that Algeria and Egypt were stable states too. We used to think so about Iran in the popular understanding. But Egypt and Algeria are teetering. They could fall at any moment. If they do the Saudis are not long for the world. The Kuwaitis are bought off by oil money. The Saudis are not so generous. The new generation of Arabs, not yet powerful, reject both the US and traditional values. A group want socialism, some want Islamic states, all want to get rid of the nepotistic status quo. The Islamics win because the middle guard of middle aged power Arabs swim in that sea -- and money talks. All those states that have ruled by the sword will be replaced by people who rule by the Kalashnikov, the Koran and the Arab version of Das Kapital. In the Arab world the democratic vote has long been undermined and sabotaged by the consensus of religion, kinship, and racial homogeneity. EC<:-}