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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jill who wrote (242)	9/18/2001 10:28:26 AM
From: FaultLine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

did ANY of us give a crap when our sanctions killed half a million Iraqi kids? any national leader can make choices leading to the decimation of his/her own people, and so it was -- the politically expedient route selected. --fl

To: Jill who wrote (242)	9/18/2001 12:16:37 PM
From: DOUG H	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 281500

But we have no right to be morally appalled--we have created much worse situations to innocent human beings, children, in other countries. When I don't see people discussing both sides of the issue and looking at the complexity of our involvement, it really irritates me. Hi Jill, I wanted to address the above. Second point first if I may. I agree with this statement. There is a real danger in not digging deeper than the rhetoric. Loyal opposition is at the heart of what we would fight for. Frredom. The complexities of the current affairs are deep and vexing. The deeper I dig, the more vexing it becomes. I would take issue with the second point however. Children were starving in Iraq before sanctions were imposed. Children will starve in Iraq after sanctions are lifted. Why? Because the leader of the country of Iraq does not give a damn about the children. There is enough food or money to buy food in Iraq today. I may be wrong about this but the sanctions were modified to exclude food, medicine, and the like. It is how these things are distributed after they arrive is what is the root of the problem. Your premise lays at our feet, the decision by leaders of these other countries to spend their $$ on weapons and feed their armies rather than the children of these countries. I respectfully, wholeheartedly reject this notion. Last night, I spent several hours talking with my neighbor, an escapee from Iran in 86'. He told me how women and children are regarded by the brutal zealots of these countries. Did you know that in Iran you can kill you children before they reach a certain age (I think he said 12), no questions asked? This is the value of children in Iran. I'm certain Iraq is similar. Do you recall why we entered Somalia? It was because millions were starving and the "leaders" (those in power) were intercepting U.N. food convoys and feeding their armies. Once again, the "leaders" decision was "let the children starve. A good # of US soldiers died in this effort, never to breath free air again. Please don't blame us for the decision of foriegn leaders to let their own people starve. Respectfully, D.H.

To: Jill who wrote (242)	9/18/2001 12:29:34 PM
From: SirRealist	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I was devastated, appalled, grief stricken at what happened to the WTC & the city I live in. But we have no right to be morally appalled--we have created much worse situations to innocent human beings, children, in other countries. I have every right to be morally appalled. By both. The notion that John Q. Public can prevent his government from acting that way, however, is absurd. One can shout, write letters, join organizations... and the crap can still happen, and usually does. Blanket statements are too simplistic. If folks here and abroad wish to blame citizens for the actions of their governments, then shall I blame Iranians for all the Shah did? I know better, and I think most folks know better, even Muslim folks.

To: Jill who wrote (242)	9/18/2001 9:46:13 PM
From: bela_ghoulashi	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

We left Saddam Hussein in power in hopes that his own military and his own people would bring him down and replace him with someone saner and more moderate. That was an implicit part of our strategy. We miscalculated the Iraqi people's resolve or willingness to stand up and do something to help themselves. To blame it all on us is just the opposite extreme of saying we had nothing to do with it at all. It's ugly frickin' world. As long as we as Americans expect to be safe on our butts watching the Superbowl and MTV, we are dancing with the devil no matter what we do. No government is ever going to keep its hands clean. It just simply can't be done.