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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: alanrs who wrote (931)	9/23/2001 12:01:06 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Thank you Alan... But alas, there will always be people like George who try to use Anti-American demogoguery to claim the US is the root of evil in this world, or actively seeking to spread evil. Evil exists.. and the US has to work within the framework of the non-democratic political structure that has existed for thousands of years, not only to compete with other competing political and economic ideologies, but in order to advance and protect our own interests so that our economic and social system is preserved. Democracies don't declare war on democracies. They engage in competition (economic and social) instead, which is normally far less violent. But there are obviously times when the veneer of civilized rules and behavior are undermined, or not fully adhered to. The US is not perfect in also upholding the values it purports to display to others. But that often depends upon the administration that is in office, or the regional security issues at stake. Some folks have railed against US intervention in Chile during the early '70s in the overthrow of Allende. But we knew that the Chilean military was moving forward with it (given their strict anti-communist Prussian influence) and the only thing the US could have done was to apply pressure to prevent it. But Allende was Anti-American and we obviously preferred an anti-communist military regime than some socialist movement that could readily invite Cuba or the USSR onto the S. American continent... But is it OUR FAULT that we didn't prevent it?? Not in my opinion... We didn't train the Chilean army, the Prussians did. Of course, US companies possessed mining interests in the country that Allende wanted to nationalize under state control, but there was nothing really to trying to claim that Pinochet was a US creation. He created himself.. and when he felt that he had accomplished what was needed (brutal although that might have been), he stepped down and held elections.. and Chile is a democracy today. Or we can look at S. Africa, where US support (much of it grass-roots) found the US in a situation where we declared economic sanctions against that nation, while those "noble" European states scrambled in there to take advantage of our lost opportunities for conduct business. Or what about the European complaints over "echelon", where they claim we are spying on everyone to further our own economic advantage over them... Alas, like there they actually think people will believe that they are the victims of US economic espionage... The reality is the echelon DOES conduct surveillance on business transactions involving US companies competing with Europeans. And this is how we've discovered the extensive use of kickbacks and bribes by our European allies involving some VERY significant quantities of money.. And US companies, because of our laws, are not permitted to engage in similar activities. So we spy in order to protect our interests. We invade the privacy of other nations, who will, and do, screw us at their FIRST opportunity because we are, at our heart, a self-limiting society, with rules and statutes that legally guide our behavior in order to ensure fairness is what is being promoted. In my view, we have NO OBLIGATION to treat any non-democratic state in a manner that we treat our allies. And even those competing democracies who choose to engage in rampant industrial espionage against the US should be treated in a "trust, but verify" mindset.. (like the French, Israelis, and lesser extent, German) fas.org infowar.com secure-data.com Yeah... the US is so evil that these folks not have to steal from us, but their own people continue to emigrate here at a far higher rate than Americans are emigrating there... Sorry for the rambling response, but I was distracted... Watching the original version of Halicki's "Gone in 60 Seconds".... Y'know the one with the AWESOME 40 minute long car chase that was made on a shoe-string budget. Hawkmoon