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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neeka who wrote (1280)	9/24/2001 7:38:21 PM
From: FaultLine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I'm having a ton of trouble figuring out how the Admistration is going to implement its financial seizures and non-trade package. GW said somethin like, if you do business or provide shelter for terrorists, you will not be doing business with the USA. Seems to me thy will be doing some tap dancing with the question of Saudi Arabia but I'm sure they have such an obvious elephant all mapped out. What other countries are big trading partners that will cause complications? --fl

To: Neeka who wrote (1280)	9/24/2001 7:38:51 PM
From: MSI	Respond to of 281500

No, it's not discussed enough "our leaders past and present in their failure to abide by the edicts laid down by our forefathers to protect America and Americans " If not our leaders, due to the demise of the citizen-politician, then we citizens will have to do it directly. Aside from Civil Defense, which is a separate subject: 1) educate yourself on how to reduce oil consumption specifically (nat gas is domestic) and energy generally, while maintaining robust and vigorous lifestyle. Technology and a little planning can do that, while expanding the economy. An example: I just spent $20k on alternative energy hardware, which will amortize at $110/mo. and save $120/mo in thermal and electric, plus my peace of mind. That boosts the makers of intelligent energy systems. For every million people that do that it's another $20b added to the economy, and a deduction from overseas terrorist support. Save money, and save your arse. A win-win. 2) demand citizen control over the out-of-control gov't spending, secret budges, opaque programs, b.s. "state secrets" blathered about by the irresponsible and criminal, as opposed to actual military secrets. This might have to come via a tax revolt, if something doesn't happen soon. This bombing is a wake-up call to taxpayers to control the overflowing largesse of our so-generous bureaucrats, admin officials and military. The more giveaways to the rest of the world, the more envy and hatred it foments, apparently. If they want wealth, then sell us something, take on a loan, either sovereign or private, but enough already with bogus "war on drugs" giveaways to dictators. What the hell is that, except larceny on a grand scale, creating thieves that come back and murder the taxpayer. And absolutely total and complete transparency. Post on a website every dollar, every invoice, every transaction, every name of every person involved, and their affiliation. Nothing is wrong with this government that openness and sunlight won't cure. Nothing is good enough about it that secrecy and hidden programs won't destroy it. With so much money criminals grow like mushrooms in the dark. These are all bills and actions taken without public debate or approval by any except a handful of Beltway Bozos and Bandits. Once you recognize the fed gov't as a $2 Trillion enterprise, the easier it is to see bad management, mistakes, corruption, self-dealing, and criminality, that one would expect to occur in any large organization. It's just a bit better hid, due to the convenience of "state secrecy" and endless sophistry by the unaccountable.

To: Neeka who wrote (1280)	9/24/2001 10:55:15 PM
From: k.ramesh	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

There is a role for both offense and defense here which has not been discussed sufficiently. The attack itself is first an attack on innocent people and secondly an attack on America the dominant. A majority of humanity I am sure is appalled at the former, while not many outside america and the first world care about the latter. This is probably the reason why in places like Egypt etc, people are seen cheering. They are cheering the fact that the most powerful nation got a black eye and not necessarily the death of so many people. While a military response will reinforce the notion of American dominance, there can be other ways to portray the America of everyday folks raising families and going about their lives. In this context not beating our chest about being the greatest country in history etc. will go a long way in preventing murder of civilians. Most of the brainwashed anti americans are probably given a very one sided picture of america, and some realistic PBS type documentaries about life in America with all its pluses and minuses aired in some more moderate ME states might save lives at a very small cost, ie some way of communicating that america is one of the great places to live in the planet, not the only one, that america is one of the great cultures, not the only one etc. It is in this vein, I had brought up the Indian state of Kerala which has acheived very high literacy, almost Zero poulation growth, and other social goals with a low per capita $ income. If the desperately poor and disenfranchised of the world are shown achievable goals then they may not be as likely to blame the west for their ills, and will begin to look at their own shortcomings/missteps .