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Technology Stocks : Cisco Systems, Inc. (CSCO) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: RetiredNow who wrote (55703)9/27/2001 11:19:19 AM
From: Dave  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 77400
 
Mindmeld,

One question regarding "investments", I'd agree that ST Investments would be valued at "market" prices, however, I do believe that LT Investments are valued at cost, therefore given the severe decline of the market this past year, I would venture to say that Cisco's LT Investments are overstated on their Balance Sheet.



To: RetiredNow who wrote (55703)9/27/2001 1:19:45 PM
From: bambs  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 77400
 
those investments are tanking...the cash is being burned.

what about the so called share buy back that is supposed to be taking place right now...$3 billion up in smoke. buying there own over valued stock with capital that would be very hard to raise right now. is this a wise use of capital at this time...i think not. why not save it and use it for bankrupcty sales in the coming months.

the only thing that buying this over valued stock right now does, is let insiders get out at better prices....so they can try to pay off their over valued homes and expensive cars/boats.

this stock is garbage.

bambs



To: RetiredNow who wrote (55703)9/27/2001 1:23:29 PM
From: bambs  Respond to of 77400
 
yahoo shows csco as having

biz.yahoo.com

a book value of $3.70 and cash of $0.94 cents a share.

with the buy backs that may or may not be taking place...(I think not $3 billion any how) they will have much less next quarter....also they are burning cash.

with the stock option game ending...you will see cash flow tank going forward.

I said it last year...I'll say it again...I'll see this pig at $5 and then think about buying...

BTW I still having bought NT yet...I don't know if it's worth $2...could go bust..

Bambs



To: RetiredNow who wrote (55703)9/27/2001 3:16:41 PM
From: Stock Farmer  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 77400
 
Mindmeld - on Cisco's asset base.

Once again you are looking at only one side of the ledger.

You are forgetting liabilities. Particularly current liabilities. Cisco has 8 B$ of these kicking around. Another tidbit you may not have noticed is that while revenue went up 3.3 B$, Current liabilities went up 3.0 B$ - again, can't have forgotten enough from your days as a CPA to realize out what that means.

Anyway, current assets minus inventories minus current liabilities is all that's left of cash and ST investments. Which comes to 3.1 B$

That leaves LT investments plus cash flow. LT investments is 10.3 B$ so the total liquifiable asset on disposition is 13.4 B$, not the rock solid 18 B$ you claim. And 60-70% of of that is corporate equities and corporate bonds.

Subtract 3 B$ in stock buyback (if they even do that), package up the other gooey assets at a generous $0.10 on the dollar and maybe you have about $2.50/share in tangible book value. Tops.

And Free Cash Flow is negative. Cash flow was positive, but it's not sustainable. I can address that in detail if you'd like in a later post.

Not enough to break the bank any time soon. But not like you're going to see tangible book value zoom up any time soon. I urge caution.

If you can hang on I'm almost done formatting my analysis of Cisco. It's not simple this year.

I think I'll dish out pieces.

John.



To: RetiredNow who wrote (55703)9/27/2001 5:44:19 PM
From: Stock Farmer  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 77400
 
Cisco Analysis - Snip 1: Stock Options

Last year I suggested that if the stock price were to
decline that Cisco's business model could be seriously
impaired in the 18-24 month time frame.

Well, it happened. And we're about 12 months in. All of a
sudden Cisco is now publishing details on its tax
accounting. Why? Here's an interesting snip from the 10-K:

At July 29, 2000, the Company provided a valuation
allowance on certain of its deferred tax assets because of
uncertainty regarding their realizability due to
expectation of future employee stock option exercises. As
of July 28, 2001, the Company has removed the valuation
allowance because it believes it is more likely than not
that all deferred tax assets will be realized in the
foreseeable future and was reflected as a credit to
shareholders' equity.


Earlier we were wondering about the effects of stock
options on dilution and on earnings.

From the statement of comprehensive income, we can see
stock outstanding


July 29 2000 7,138
July 28 2001 7,324

Change 186 = 2.6%


This is well below the long term average rate of 5.4%
annualized. This is good news.

We also discussed the source (Acquisition vs Stock Option).



Purchase Acquisitions: 46 for $2,163 (Avg = $47.02 /sh)
Issuence of common stock: 140 for $1,262 (Avg = $ 9.01 /sh)

Total: 186 for $3,425 (Avg = $18.41 /sh)



Where did this "issuence of common stock come from? Well,
under compensation we see:



Common Stock Issued 140 @ $ 9.01 = 1,262
Minus Stock options exercised 133 @ $ 7.43 = 988
----------------------------------------------------
Total Other 7 @ $39.12 = 274



Stock options accounted for 72% of dilution in FY 2001,
versus 50% 5 year average. Essentially stock option
dilution has continued at a constant rate while business
combinations have essentially ceased.

At an average stock price of approximately $47 per share,
countering dilution from stock options would have cost
Cisco a total of 6.3 B$ of cash.

In contrast, the cash flow benefit to the company from
stock option exercise is:


Cash Contribution from Employees 988
Tax Benefit 1,755
Total 2,743 positive cash flow



Note that using an effective tax rate of 35% we can
calculate difference of fair market value and strike of
approximately $37.70 Adding this to the average strike
price of 9.01 we have an average stock price of around $47.

So much for the facts. What does this mean to the business,
and thus to us as investors?

The real significance comes from examining the remaining
pool of options.

The hypothetical value of an option pool can be calculated
assuming an average exercise price. Then assume all
options above this price expire worthless and all options
below this price are exercised. Cash benefit to the
company then has two components: (a) contribution from
employees equals average strike price exercised times #
options exercised, and (b) contribution from IRS equals
0.35 x difference between average strike price and average
exercise price.

In 2000 with stock price of 72.56 (all options vest) we have:


Option Pool Contribution
Range Num Average Employee IRS Total
Strike

$ 0.01- 5.56 229 $ 5.23 $ 1,197 $ 5,396 $ 6,594
$ 5.57-12.27 258 $ 9.56 $ 2,466 $ 5,688 $ 8,155
$12.28-28.61 194 $23.59 $ 4,576 $ 3,325 $ 7,901
$28.62-54.53 241 $49.91 $12,028 $ 1,910 $13,938
$54.54-72.56 49 $65.65 $ 3,216 $ 118 $ 3,335

Total 971 $24.19 $23,486 $16,440 $39,925


In comparison for 2001, if the stock price hits $14 a
similar math yeilds



Option Pool Contribution
Range Num Average Employee IRS Total
Strike
$ $ $ $ $
$ 0.01- 8.39 226 $ 4.97 $ 1,123 $ 714 $ 1,837
$ 8.40-18.57 255 $13.98 $ 1,782 $ 1 $ 1,783 *
$ 18.58-50.38 338 $37.45 $ 0 $ 0 $ 0
$ 50.39-67.75 214 $55.85 $ 0 $ 0 $ 0
$ 67.76-74.94 27 $69.35 $ 0 $ 0 $ 0

Total 481 $6.04 $ 2,905 $ 715 $ 3,620

*Note: With weighted average price of $13.98 approximately
equal to exercise price, dollar weighted half expire
worthless and dollar weighted half expire in the money.



With the plunge in their share price, Cisco has lost
approximately 36 Billion dollars of potential positive cash
contribution. Compare that to Cisco's entire 2000 net
income of 2.668 B$ and I do not need to explain the
significance.

Secondly, compare the remaining depth of the entire pool
(3.6 B$ versus the contribution in FY 01 of 2.7 B$). And
consider that 350 million options were exerciseable at
prices under $12.00 at YE FY 00, and only 133 of these
were exercised in FY 01. It is abundantly clear that if the stock
price does not rise significantly, Cisco will lose
significant cash flow within the next 12 months.

The cash rich "selling slices" part of the business has
effectively fallen off a cliff and the cash flow
implications are dire.

Why is this important? I suggest a review of total
comprehensive income.

By 1998 cumulative retained earnings was about 54% of total
comprehensive income: 3.9 B$, versus 3.3 B$ from "Common
Stock and Additional Paid In Capital".

In 2001 this ratio has plunged to 27% (20.1 B$ versus 7.3).

Conclusion: First: the major reason for Cisco's
impressive cash flow and oft cited "18 Billion Dollars" has
been its stock distribution. Second: Cisco has subsidized
the growth of its business from this cash source (they have
less than 20.1 B$ of investment assets). Third: If it goes
away, Cisco will not generate the cash flow necessary to
command an increasing stock price... further exacerbating
the effect; and conversely.

I suggest that if Cisco's stock price does not climb
aggressively that the full effect on cash flow for FY 2002
will be quite noticeable.

John.