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To: tcmay who wrote (144335)	9/28/2001 12:01:26 PM
From: muzosi	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 186894

Twenty-five years ago the "Boat People"... None of this is politically correct, but it's the unvarnished truth actually i don't disagree with this observation but you are missing a very important statistical anomaly here. the people who arrive at the us are by definition a self-selected very driven ambitious group of people who take all the risks to get here. it is very reasonable that they will do well here. percentage wise there are more than enough black people who show the same initiative here in the us. when you talk about boat people you have to ask why the rest are still sitting in their countries, getting subsistence protein, earning less than a $1 a day and doing nothing with their lives. why don't they get off their ass and come to us in boats? iow, when you compare a very small, selected group of people to a large society the statistic will be hugely skewed. this is what the non-pc extreme right does in this country. you go find a single black woman who has found a job by the grace and use it as an example to put millions of people into poverty without thinking whether there are really jobs these people can get. so your truth is as varnished as any but this time it is varnished by the extreme racist view which put these people into slavery by claiming they were inferior and forbid them using the same water fountain as you.

To: tcmay who wrote (144335)	9/28/2001 12:28:16 PM
From: fingolfen	Respond to of 186894

None of this is politically correct, but it's the unvarnished truth. No, it's your unvarnished opinion, and it smacks of racism because you generalize an entire group based on a portion of that group. I'm not going to say that your comments are not reasonably accurate for a portion of the black population... but then again they're just as accurate for part of the white population as well... and ironically a large proportion both the black population and white population in question started out as economically disadvantaged individuals employed in agriculture.

To: tcmay who wrote (144335)	9/28/2001 1:14:40 PM
From: Saturn V	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 186894

Ref < Immigrants success vs Negro lack of progress > Tim, whatever you are saying is factually correct. However as pointed out by others, any immigrant is highly driven even to have uprooted himself, and transplanted himself to America. Secondly apart from refugees and illegals, US has selectively picked immigrants who were highly educated. So again the first generation immigrants tend to be highly driven and successful, and those values are easily passed on to the next generation. However the Negro population has a major problem. The family structure and values were destroyed during the days of institutional slavery. These still have not come back completely despite the 150 years of emancipation. The civil rights legislation allowed the blacks into the higher educational system only a generation ago. The black middle class, which was created has benefited from this, is also a problem. The black middle class essentially migrated out of the black ghetto into white suburbia. So what is left in the ghetto ? The drug dealers, the pimps and prostitutes. These are the role models for the black youth. They turn on the TV, and the blacks they see on TV, are sports stars or entertainers. So the young black in the ghetto sees no sucessful black middle class professional as a role model. So the young black wants to be a sports star, or a drug pusher. So why should they aspire to better grades, which is difficult anyway given the poor schools ? The offspring of the unwed mothers have no family structure to tell them otherwise. The black leadership is also guilty of inaction on this issue. I would like Jesse Jackson to go around galvanizing the black youth into aspiring into the middle class role models. Long term this is a better strategy, since Affirmative Action should only be a short term action. This is a touchy issue for everyone, and it should be given a rest.