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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Stan who wrote (32942)	10/3/2001 4:50:10 AM
From: Mitch Blevins	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Hi Stan, I should clarify that I do NOT agree with Gretchen's view. My point in bringing it up (and in the Michael Jackson exercise) is that prophecies can be interpreted in many different ways, and the presentation of subsequent facts (whether of Jesus or Michaels life) can be made through a particular understanding of prophecy. It appears that the gospel writers and some of the apostles and perhaps even Jesus interpreted Isaiah 53 to be about a suffering messiah, rather than Israel. As such, we see the accounts of Jesus' life through that lens. Gretchen does not represent all Jewish thought. Some would believe only in a triumphant messiah (like in Isaiah 11), while others believe in two messiahs, one a suffering servant and another a triumphant messiah. A third group would believe that these two will be one and the same person. A fourth group believes like the third, but that the messiah has already come (but we don't call these people Jews anymore, but Christians). Gretchen appears to belong to the first group. Altough I despise postmodernists, I tend to fall into that category when it comes to Isaiah interpretations. I think Isaiah was "inspired" enough (or "speaking from the gut", if that suits better) that we can't really have a what-it-really-means target to shoot for. So I tend to treat Jewish interpretations of it with the same enthusiastic ambivalence as I do the Christian interpretation. If you were Gretchen I would be arguing the Christian interpretation of it with you/her right now. About 53:6 and the sheep reference... Good point, but wasn't Jesus referring to gentiles in his parable of the lost sheep? Isaiah 11 and 53 do share the shoot/branch imagery that is characteristic of a messiah. I'm not sure I can draw any continuity analogies between the two and the previous chapters. Aside from the context (see how 52:14 and the end of 53:2 share a theme?), my claim that the passage should begin with 52:13 comes from the setumot division at that point. For an explanation of this, see centuryone.org If you can get a hold of a Jerusalem Bible Koren translation, it will have all the original divisions there to browse. -Mitch