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To: David R who wrote (70)10/7/2001 3:34:56 PM
From: 2MAR$  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 2926
 
THere is no historical evidence that the writers of the new testament were exposed to Buddhaism at all. You can claim thievery as you wish. You would never compel an impartial jury.

No Borrowing from Pagans DR ? One would have to be blind
not to see all the correlations and borrowed roots. Just as
Islam is "borrowed" potpourri from the Bedouin myths and
fables , Christian and Jewish mythologies that preceded it
and surrounded Mohammed.

So , no Borrowing from Pagans DR ? Here is just a few...

Borrowing From Pagans


In addition to a lack of historical support, many characteristics of Jesus, which Christians today believe in, are undeniably similar or identical to religious trends and beliefs that preceded Christianity.

There are tens of accounts of pagan gods of many different cultures who were said to have the same attributes as those that Christians claim Jesus had. A brief review of some of these may lead to some interesting questions concerning the originality of the Christian claim:

Trinity

Trinities were popular in pagan sects before Christianity was introduced to the world. Some of the more well known trinity gods included Mithra-Vohu Mana-Rashnu, Amen-Mut-Khonsu, and Osiris-Isis-Horus.

- The Virgin Birth

Among the pagan cultures that preceded Christianity, virgin birth stories abounded. The long list of pagan gods born of virgins includes: Romulus and Remus, Zoroaster, Buddha, Mithras, Chrishna, Osiris-Aion, Agdistis, Attis, Tammuz, Adonis, Korybas, Perseus, and Dionysus.

Royal Decree

Many pagan sects related the story of the king who decreed that all male children were to be killed, so that the foretold arrival of the god/savior would be prevented. The gods about which such stories were told included among others: Romulus and Remus, Perseus, Chrishna, Zeus, Buddha and Oedipus.

Disciples

In the following 'saviors' cases, a grouping of disciples was present, just as they were present in Jesus' story: Horus, Buddha, Chrishna, Dionysus, Mithra. Interestingly enough, in the case of Dionysus, his disciple Acoetes was a boatman, just as Jesus' disciple Peter. And just as Peter was freed from jail when the doors miraculously flew open, so was Dionysus' disciple Acoetes. In Budda's case, he, like Jesus, demanded that his disciples renounce all worldly possessions. Yet another instance of similarity is that the disciples of both Jesus and Buddha were said to have been arrested for preaching, as well as witnessed to have "walked on water."

Miracles

Among those 'saviors' who, like Jesus, performed countless miracles include: Horus, Chrishna, Buddha, Dionysus, Mithra, Osirus, and Adonis. Horus & said to have walked on water, just as Jesus did. In addition, Horus raised one man, El-Azarus, from the dead in front of countless witnesses. In the case of Buddha, it was told that he fed five hundred men with one loaf of bread, that he cured
lepers, and that he caused the blind to see. And one of
the more famous stories of Buddha's disciple walking on water .
When it came to Dionysus, he rescued a person from dying when the person was utterly desolate and placed them among the stars. And he gave food and drink, herbs and berries, to the starving people -- not to mention turning water into wine.

* * The Sun * *


Here is another common theory, quoted from S. Acharya's

"The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus:"

"The reason why all these pagan narratives are so similar to a "god-man" is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.

In other words, Jesus and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens.

December Birth

For instance, many of the world's crucified "god-men" have their traditional birthday on December 25. This is because the ancients recognized that (from an earth-centric perspective) the sun makes an annual descent southward until December 21 or 22, the winter solstice, when it stops moving southerly for three days and then starts to move northward again.

During this time, the ancients declared that "G-d's sun" had "died" for three days and was "born again" on December 25. The ancients realized quite abundantly that they needed the sun to return every day and that they would be in big trouble if the sun continued to move southward and did not stop and reverse its direction. Thus, these many different cultures celebrated the "sun of G-d's" birthday on December 25th. The following are the characteristics of the "sun" of G-d:

- The sun "dies" for three days on December 22, the winter solstice, when it stops in its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25, when it resumes its movement north.

- In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin."

- The sun is the "Light of the World."

- The sun "cometh on clouds, and every eye shall see him."

- The sun rising in the morning is the "Savior of mankind."

- The sun wears a corona ("crown of thorns") or a halo.

- The sun "walks on water."

- The sun's "followers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the Zodiac, through which the sun must pass.

- The sun is "crucified," which represents it's passing through the equinoxes, the vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.


Contrary to popular belief, the ancients were not an ignorant and superstitious lot who actually believed their deities to be literal characters. This has been part of the conspiracy to make the ancients appear as if they were truly the dark and dumb rabble that was in need of the "light of Jesus." The reality is that the ancients were no less advanced in their morals and spiritual practices, and in many cases were far more advanced, than the Christians in their own morality, which in its very attempt at historicity, is in actuality a degradation of the ancient myths."

In addition, all over the world are sites where this "god" or that allegedly was born, walked, suffered, died, etc., a common occurrence that is not monopolized by, and did not originate with, Christianity.

An early Christian Syrian writer (quoted in Credner's "De Natalitorium Christi Origine") wrote the following concerning the December 25 hoax:

"The reason why the Church fathers transferred the celebration from January 6 to December 25, was that it was the custom of the pagans to celebrate on the same December 25 the birthday of the sun, at which time they lit lights in token of festivity, and in these rites and festivals the Christians also took part. Accordingly, when the doctors of the Church perceived that the Christians had a liking for this festival, they resolved that the true nativity should be commemorated on that day."

These are just a few examples of the many similarities between almost every Christian doctrine and the parallel pagan beliefs. Had Christianity preceded the pagan cultures, we would have argued that the pagans borrowed their ideas from Christianity. However, since it was the opposite case, we cannot simply turn a blind eye to the very questionable foundation upon which Christianity itself is built on.

While there is no one known to have registered any objection to the truths of the events recorded in the Tanach, when they happened, the early annals of Christian history do reveal many such dissenting opinions. The Arians and Nestorians were just two of several groups who opposed the concepts that some Christians wanted to force upon every Christian adherent.

The Christian absorption of pagan ideas did not transpire so smoothly. Celsus, a philosopher who lived around 180 CE, wrote the following:

"Many of the nations of the world hold doctrines similar to those espoused by the Christians. The Galactophegi of Homer, the Druids of Gaul, and even the Getae believe doctrines very close to those of Christianity. Linus, Musaeus, Orpheus, Pherecydes, Zoroaster the Persian, and Pythagoras understood these doctrines. What absurdity! Clearly, the Christians used the myths of the Danae and the Melanippe, or the Auge and the Antiope in fabricating the story of Jesus' virgin birth."

Many Christian scholars and leaders who have studied these historical facts have hosen to ignore them, declare them the work of Satan, or question their historical relevance. Those who question their historical relevance must contend with the fact that many of these pagan cults existed during the time when Christianity was being developed, and many pagans who adopted Christianity during those days, brought with them many pagan customs and beliefs. The fact that December 25, the alleged day on which Jesus was born, was also the day on which a Persian pagan sect celebrated the winter solstice, did not seem to disturb Christian minds, and shouldn't have, until the pagans of that sect began to adopt Christianity. Those pagan converts were surprisingly not requested to give up their December 25 celebrations. The church was far more intelligent than to give the pagans a reason to leave them; in the fourth century, they simply transferred the theme of the celebration of December 25 to the day that their savior was born, although it was originally thought to be January 6 (the day on which the Eastern churches still celebrate Jesus' birth to this day).

Many professors of modern and past times cannot help but conclude that Jesus is based on pagan deities of old. Among these scholars number individuals such as Porphry (3rd Century), Max Muller, Ernest de Bunsen, Joseph Wheless, Albert Churchward (all of the 19th Century), and T.W. Doane (20th Century). Even Pope Leo X, privy to the truth because of his high rank, made this curious declaration, "It was well known how profitable this fable of Christ has been to us" ("The Diegesis" by Rev. Robert Taylor, footnote, p. 35.).

To conclude, in light of the tremendous volume of evidence that is there for anyone interesting in taking the time to read it, the underlying question of whether or not Christianity is simply the heir of pagan beliefs prevalent at the time of its development, is not a question that can simply be ignored by any Christian when pondering the origins of his/her faith.



To: David R who wrote (70)10/7/2001 3:59:41 PM
From: 2MAR$  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 2926
 
You may not be familiar with the story of the Buddha's disciple walking on the water that was told centuries
before ..so here I'll post for you :

(you may or may not see the similarities...)

*~* Lord Buddha ....& Disciple walking on the Water *~*

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~


SOUTH of Savatthi is a great river, on the banks of which lay a hamlet of five hundred houses. Thinking of the salvation of the people, the World-honored One resolved to go to the village and preach the doctrine. Having come to the riverside he sat down beneath a tree, and the villagers seeing the glory of his appearance approached him with reverence; but when he began to preach, they believed him not.

When the world-honored Buddha had left, one called Savatthi Sariputta felt a desire to see the Lord and to hear him preach. Coming to the river where the water was deep and the current strong, he said to himself: "This stream shall not prevent me. I shall go and see the Blessed One, and he stepped upon the water which was as firm under his feet as a slab of granite. When he arrived at a place in the middle of the stream where the waves were high, Sariputta's heart gave way, and he began to sink. But rousing his faith and renewing his mental effort, he proceeded as before and reached the other bank.

The people of the village were astonished to see Sariputta, and they asked how he could cross the stream where there was neither a bridge nor a ferry. Sariputta replied: "I lived in ignorance until I heard the voice of the Buddha. As I was anxious to hear the doctrine of salvation, I crossed the river and I walked over its troubled waters because I had faith. Faith. nothing else, enabled me to do so, and now I am here in the bliss of the Master's presence."

And Lord Buddha added: "Sariputta, thou hast spoken well. Faith like thine alone can save the world from the yawning gulf of migration and enable men to walk dryshod to the other shore." And the Blessed One urged to the villagers the necessity of ever advancing in the conquest of sorrow and of casting off all shackles so as to cross the river of worldliness and attain
deliverance from death.

Hearing the words of the Tathagata, the villagers were filled with joy and believing in the doctrines of the Blessed One embraced the five rules and took refuge in his name.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

PS: The idea of "Disciples " -----> "Spreading the Gospel " peacefully throughout every corner of the world and the "Doctrine of Salvation" was a core belief & common theme and teaching/direction of the Buddha.