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To: pater tenebrarum who wrote (127344)	10/4/2001 12:06:49 PM
From: Haim R. Branisteanu	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 436258

Heinz, regardless of all the articles, a religion should evolve and adapt to the times, after all a religion is a social tool (invented before any type of government was established) to provide our emotional needs which no government can provide. As the way of governing people has changed over time so should religion. (remember that churces were also tax collectors?? ) Christianity and Judaism evolved over time ..... we do not burn to the stick any one labeled a practitioner of witchcraft, (as 500 year ago) nor do we "stone to death" convicted felons or do "offering " of lambs to our GOD (as over 2000 years ago). I am not familiar with Buddhism but from what I know there were no "holly wars" declared in the name of Buddha. Liberal education and true democracy in the Arab / Muslim world will solve this problem and hunting bin Laden is just a bandage on a gangrene ........ which I suspect is the true goal of this administration................. going further on democracy no one has the guts to do it.

To: pater tenebrarum who wrote (127344)	10/4/2001 12:40:53 PM
From: SFW	Read Replies (6) \| Respond to of 436258

Heinz, I read your response to Haim, as well as the article posted by him. I will not dwell too much on the article as it is clear that the author has a hypothesis that he uses to explain away any grievance that anyone in the Muslim world may have. In any case, there can be no justification for terrorism whether the grievances are real or not. What I want to take issue with is your comment "that Islam has demoted women to second-class citizens". It seems that you, and many others, tend to confuse Islam,the religion, with the culture of those those who are muslims. What you see in countries like Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia is not necessarily a reflection of Islam, but is rather a mixture of cultural behaviors sprinkled with convenient interpretations of Islam. You need to look at other Muslim countries to get a better picture. For example, look at Egypt, Morocco, Lebanon, Pakistan, Indonesia (Prime Minister is a women), Malaysia etc. RE:"imagine the economic consequences of all of our women becoming veiled house wives." There is nothing in Islamic teachings that says that women have to be veiled housewives. Women in most Islamic countries (Except Afghanistan)participate fully in economic, political and social activities, yet people seem to ignore these countries and instead focus on countries that are ruled by non-democratically elected governments. What may now seem to be restrictive Islamic laws was in fact very progressive at the time when Islam originated. As an example, men have to sign a pre-nuptial agreement that would provide the woman with an agreed upon alimony in case of divorce. All property owned by a married woman and income she earns is her's to do whatever she want with. None of that 50-50 stuff when a divorce happens. The one thing that most seem to focus on is the veil (head cover, not face cover). True. It is mandated by Islam, and some women are forced into wearing one, but you'd be surprised at what percentage of women actually choose to wear one. Remember that Christian and Hindu women also cover their heads and many do so outside church (Amish) and they don't make the headline news. Head cover does not translate into oppression. This discussion can go on and on but this is probably not the place for it. I just wanted to reply in order to present another viewpoint. Peace. Abed

To: pater tenebrarum who wrote (127344)	10/4/2001 3:46:32 PM
From: Haim R. Branisteanu	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 436258

Heinz yesterday I was wondering why we do not hear about Sudan now we are with a bit of delay...... and it get's bloodier by the day. Sudan Rebels Say Shoot Down Two Govt Helicopters By REUTERS Filed at 1:29 p.m. ET NAIROBI (Reuters) - Sudanese rebels said on Thursday they had shot down two government helicopter gunships in the southwest of the country and killed 28 soldiers in fighting on the ground in the past two weeks. nytimes.com Sixteen Killed in Violence in Indian Kashmir By REUTERS Filed at 11:35 a.m. ET SRINAGAR, India (Reuters) - Sixteen people died in fresh separatist violence on Wednesday and Thursday in Indian Kashmir, where a suicide bomber killed 38 people on Monday, police said. nytimes.com