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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: St_Bill who wrote (31311)	10/8/2001 8:23:18 PM
From: gao seng	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

It is not a socialist idea that as human beings we have certain entitlements, such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (ie a general welfare system). A socialist idea is that all goods are equally shared by the people. And that any means used towards that end are acceptable. The use of any means is unacceptable to a civilized people. No matter the promise. "This Laodicean cant of tolerance" of evil is deceptive. A great quote, I think. education.yahoo.com is a great reference site. I found that quote of Robert Elsmere while looking up tolerance.

To: St_Bill who wrote (31311)	10/8/2001 11:27:29 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

This sounds contradictory to me. Wealth and power have nothing to do with freedom? I have freedom of speech. Bill Gates and George Bush have freedom of speech. When they talk a lot more people will hear them but it doesn't mean that I have less freedom of speech. This began with the question of whether communism was entirely evil. I argued that it wasn't, suggesting that it's focus upon (to put it tritely I guess) the plight of the worker, contributed to and in some ways forced great and needed labor reforms in this country shortly after the turn of the nineteenth century and beyond. I would make a distinction between most labor unions and labor laws and real communism. Also the biggest reason for the improvement in working conditions in the US is the increase in wealth in the US. with the capitalist/free-market idea (which is just as important) that likewise as human beings, merit and excellence ought to count for something. Capitalism is more then the idea that merit and excellence ought to count for something it is the idea that freedom ought to count for something. I think you are mixing up mild forms of socialism with communism. I am against most relatively mild socialist ideas as well but I was talking about communism, not labor unions or FDRs programs or the 40 hour work week. It was the absence of care directed at this balance that had led to the extinction of general freedom by totalitarian regimes, some of which were capitalist. I can't think of any capitalist totalitarian country either currently or in history. Capitalist authoritarian regimes did exist but most authoritarian regimes aren't big on the free market anyway but instead give legal monopolies to those favored by the regime while stacking the rules against the regime's opponents. (Those that aren't so much in opposition as to "disserve" execution). Tim