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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Poet who wrote (31548)	10/9/2001 4:27:33 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

I am noticing (on SI anyway) a shift to a hawkish and self-righteous stance, so that even reminding people of these more unsavory aspects of our country's past is seen as unpatriotic. For some refusal to recognize American mistakes and unsavory practices is just jingoism at a time of crisis, but on the other hand it should be recognized that we have dealt with complex situations. Saudi Arabia is hardly a democracy not is it a particuarly free country but is support for them against Iraq unsavory? I don't think so. Support for the Shah of Iran might be a better example but even here its not like his opposition would have been a bunch of unrelenting supporters for freedom and democracy. In many cases when everyone we might support seems unsavory it might be best to just walk away and support no one, or in certain situations just send humanitarian aid, but we really need to stay somewhat involved in the middle east because of its oil supply. In other cases we got involved because of the cold war to keep the soviets from putting some client of theirs in charge in certain countries in different area of the world. I would say most US involvement in the world is either positive, or in a murky grey area rather then being unjust or evil. Of course a lot of damage can be done in the grey areas but sometimes it is hard to avoid them. Tim

To: Poet who wrote (31548)	10/9/2001 4:34:14 PM
From: Bill	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

One person's unsavory is another's savory. Government policies will invariably always displease affected factions. Even when 94% of the population approve of an action, like our execution of this war, the disaffected 6% are free to protest and to let their voices be heard. This is the true "self-examination" because it comes from within and is continuous. No place on earth has what we have and I for one am grateful for it.

To: Poet who wrote (31548)	10/10/2001 7:31:23 AM
From: thames_sider	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Until we can be be honest about our own country's shortfallings in that regard, it's going to be tough indeed to expect painful self-examination from the eastern hemisphere. A problem I see is that most governments in Asia don't seem at all inclined to self-examination, painful or otherwise - even if they were sufficiently stable and supported to do so. Nor do the more vocal elements in their populations inspire or desire such. Instead any admission of guilt or failure by the US (especially) is seen as an excuse for no change or worse behaviour on their part, and possibly as a justification for demanding compensation, retraction or retreat by the West, or even revenge upon us... The problem is whether we recognise these double standards. To do so would be more inflaming now; but not to do so would leave the problem there, and the conditions in place for more anti-Western feeling later...