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Politics : High Tolerance Plasticity -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: stockman_scott who wrote (9299)	10/10/2001 4:42:51 PM
From: aerosappy	Respond to of 23153

Scott, RE: Wisconsin <<now we have this joker from Wisconsin trying to water down the bill>> What do you expect from a state that contains Madison, where they voted to outlaw the Pledge of Allegiance -- and the words to the National Anthem! dailynews.yahoo.com Madison Schools Ax The Pledge Madison Metropolitan School Board members held a special meeting Monday night and decided to that they will not allow schools to use the Pledge of Allegiance to fulfill a new state law that requires them to offer the pledge or national anthem daily.

To: stockman_scott who wrote (9299)	10/10/2001 5:09:24 PM
From: kodiak_bull	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23153

"this joker from Wisconsin trying to water down the bill" Well, I predicted that the country would swing sharply to the right, and at the same time declared that I would stand my own ground and, eventually, be slightly left of center. Man, that didn't take long. Remember Feingold was the only Democrat (or one of a few) who voted to confirm Ashcroft and others on the basis of principles, something Daschle, Gephardt and the others couldn't find until after 9/11 (hokay, there were some 'publicans who couldn't locate theirs, either.) But I'll have to stand with Russ here (although he's taking an unpopular stand at this emotional time). We do need to stop and debate some of these things. The reason why I don't have a problem with a T.I.C. is that it is voluntary (hey, you want to fly out of a federally protected airport in federal airspace, or ride a bus on a federal highway or a train on Conrail--you must submit and get your ass a TIC), but some of the stuff Feingold wants makes pretty good sense to me: <<-Eliminate a provision in the bill that would allow police to secretly search suspects' homes. [Do you want to come home from dinner with your wife to find a couple of "men in black" in your walk in closet?] -Narrow a provision that allows federal officials to wiretap telephones. [Again, probable cause is the standard for all searches and seizures, including wiretaps] -Keep the FBI from being able to access Americans' personal records. [This depends on what "personal records" is] -Clarify the federal government's ability to wiretap computers. [Similar comment.]>> The country is shifting at warp speed (sorry, Warp) to the right, it's a race to wrap their sorry selves in the flag. It might be worth a moment to reflect on why we like this place so much in the beginning. But I'm not changing my position on visas, foreign student admissions, oversight of banking transactions, etc. Even if I stand still my positions will soon look like Teddy Kennedy's to the vast bulk of America. FWIW, I don't think we ought to have kids saying the Pledge in school or praying, at least not between 9 and 3. Let 'em form a club or a zillion clubs to meet and attend to political, social (and sexual) agendae. Let's keep 9 to 3 for math, science, history and the study of prepositions and appositives, shall we? No more politically correct, incorrect agendae in the public schools on the public dime. Kb

To: stockman_scott who wrote (9299)	10/10/2001 5:46:28 PM
From: Oblomov	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 23153

>> Sometimes we have to give up a few civil liberties in exchange for security...I'll bet if Mr. Feingold lost a son or daughter in the WTC he might have a totally different view on what's appropriate. This is why we have a representative government, and not a direct democracy. The people who only respond emotionally to events and those with demagogic intent should not be passing laws on behalf of other people. I don't want to live, "securely" or otherwise, in a country that has abandoned such concepts as probable cause and habeus corpus.