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To: maceng2 who wrote (78439)	10/14/2001 11:39:14 AM
From: E. Charters	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116753

So what are we supposed to do with these Mitchells? Fly them into some mud huts in Afghanistan? They don't have any Empire State buildings. There are other solutions. If location transponders could not be turned off and commercial aircraft had emerg fly by wire control (it worked fine with CF100's and AV-Roe aircraft, they could all be flown and landed from the tower -- and it also works with Harrier), and if a flight plan database were kept then this threat could be headed off cheaply. One other solution is construction and fire control in large buildings. The WTC was a known fire trap with no usable exits for large scale evacs and locked exit doors at that. Water at height and pump/pipe capacity for a major fire on any floor is less than 5% of adequate. This was known when it was designed. If exits were wide enough, (about twice as wide) had slides and physically separated from the building in mini towers then all would have got out. In addition, if two floors were dedicated to fire control the fire would not have been able to melt the steel. Further the pathetic gypsum coating of the steel was also known to highly inadequate. Everybody knows that there is no substitute for Asbestos. Chrysotile long fibre asbestos does not cause asbestosis. That has been proved. The fibre is huge and easily exits the body by phagocytes and anyway can be locked in by binders. The health hazard even for bound crocidolite (short fibre asbestos) with a good binder is vanishingly small. They use it in brake pads and you don't see mechanics who blow out brakes every day with lung disease. (note: the disease of asbestosis was prevalent in dry grinding plants of blue Asbestos or Crocidolite, not Chrysotile, in Quebec.) The binder wraps the fibre and renders it harmless. Long fibre Asbestos however is the stuff that is good for fire control. With one half inch of asbestos on the steel the building would have survived 4 to 5 hours of that kind of fire. If there were stand pipes and 1000 HP in building pumps and/or good size roof tanks then the control would have put the fire out by that time. This was all covered in a cheapo Hollywood disaster movie. The Empire state had a serious one hour fire. Granted it faced 1/4 of the fuel of the WTC, but its construction, which was well coated steel frame, easily withstood this. The wTC was skin, frame tube. When the side skin and a few frame members melted it had to go. This would not have happened with the ES. Its strength did not depend on the skin. EC<:-}

To: maceng2 who wrote (78439)	2/23/2002 1:55:57 PM
From: maceng2	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116753

Wow, some recalulation need doing... ananova.com Second plane to hit World Trade Centre was travelling faster Researchers believe the second hijacked plane to hit the World Trade Centre tower was travelling about 100 mph faster than the first. Investigators are focusing on the speed of the two planes as they seek to explain what caused the south tower to collapse first, even though it was hit later, The New York Times reports. Researchers have closely studied videos, sound recordings and radar to estimate how fast the two jetliners were moving. Studies show that both planes were travelling well over the federal limits for altitudes below 10,000 feet. The second plane was flying so fast that it was in danger of breaking up in the air as it approached the south tower, Boeing spokeswoman Liz Verdier told the Times. "These guys exceeded even the emergency dive speed," Verdier said. "It's off the chart." Two studies have analysed the speed of the planes, one by the Federal Aviation Administration in consultation with the National Transportation Safety Board and the other by Massachusetts Institute of Technology. The government's calculations put the speed of the first plane at 494 mph and the second at 586 mph.The MIT analysis determined the first plane was travelling 429 mph, and the second 537 mph. The south tower collapsed 56 minutes after the crash. The north tower stood for 102 minutes. Structural engineers have not determined to what extent the speed of the planes affected how long the buildings stood. They are studying many factors, including the point at which each tower was hit.