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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (5248)	10/15/2001 12:44:21 PM
From: Mao II	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

M. Latif: Are you familiar with this case? Note the location of the right-wing plotters. M2 Two men arrested with anthrax Copyright © 1998 Nando.net Copyright © 1998 The Associated Press How anthrax kills LAS VEGAS (February 19, 1998 7:30 p.m. EST nando.net) -- Two men were charged Thursday with possessing the deadly germ anthrax for use as a weapon. The FBI said one bragged in Las Vegas he had enough to "wipe out the city" and last year laid out a plan to attack New York City subways. The men were arrested in suburban Henderson late Wednesday as they were allegedly trying to arrange a lab test of the substance. Their beige Mercedes, sealed in plastic, was hauled off to an airbase for tests to see whether the material carried inside was the germ warfare agent. An informant said one of the men told him he had "military grade anthrax" in flight bags in the trunk of the Mercedes, according to an FBI affidavit. The informant said he saw eight to 10 bags marked "biological" in the trunk. Larry Wayne Harris, 46, of Lancaster, Ohio, and William Leavitt, 47, of Las Vegas and Logandale, Nev., appeared before a federal magistrate Thursday afternoon. But Bobby Siller, special agent in charge of the Las Vegas FBI office, told a news conference before the affidavit was released there was no indication the men had any target. The FBI said the pair were trying to arrange to buy the informant's testing equipment for $2 million up front and another $18 million later. Siller repeatedly reassured residents of the Las Vegas area that there was no contamination and no danger. Harris, identified by the FBI as a member of the Aryan Nations, was previously given probation after pleading guilty to illegally obtaining bubonic plague bacteria through the mail in 1995. He is also author of a self-published book called "Bacteriological Warfare: A Major Threat to North America." Leavitt, who has no criminal record, owns a microbiology lab in rural Logandale, about 60 miles north of Las Vegas, and another in Frankfurt, Germany, according to the affidavit prepared by FBI Special Agent John H. Hawken. The affidavit said a confidential informant called the FBI Wednesday to say he was a research scientist and had been contacted by Harris and Leavitt, who asked him to use some of his equipment to test vials of the bacterium Bacillus anthracis, which causes anthrax. Over the next 12 hours, the informant kept in touch with the FBI and at least one phone call was tapped. The document outlined a meeting of Harris and Leavitt with another man at the Gold Coast Hotel. The man, who was neither identified nor charged, was later tracked down by the FBI and related their conversation. "Harris had shown him what appeared to be a vial, which was wrapped in cardboard and stated that it contained anthrax," the affidavit said. "Harris held the vial in his hand and further stated that there was enough there to 'wipe out the city."' Anthrax is an infectious disease that usually afflicts only animals, especially cattle and sheep. But anthrax spores can be produced in a dry form suitable for weapons and can be fatal to humans even in microscopic amounts. Anthrax can also be used in germ warfare; many of the troops who fought in the Persian Gulf War were inoculated for the bacteria. In Washington, D.C., Attorney General Janet Reno briefed President Clinton by telephone on what the government knows about the case and what was being done. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which publishes the quarterly newsletter Intelligence Report about such groups, Harris was an Aryan Nations member at the time of the plague case, said spokesman Mark Potok. In Hayden Lake, Idaho, Aryan Nations founder Richard Butler denied Harris was a member of his Christian Identity, a white-separatist sect. Last year, Harris pleaded guilty to a count of fraud after he was accused of illegally obtaining bubonic plague bacteria through the mail from a laboratory. He said he never intended to hurt anyone and was sentenced to 18 months on probation. Harris was arrested in May 1995 after a Rockville, Md., laboratory sent three vials of the freeze-dried, inactive bacteria to his home in Lancaster, Ohio. Even after pleading guilty to the charge, Harris maintained he did nothing wrong. He said he wanted the bacteria for research for his book. "I am a scientist. I am absolutely of no harm to anyone. I never, never intended to hurt anyone," he said then. By ROBERT MACY, Associated Press Writer archive.nandotimes.com

To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (5248)	10/15/2001 1:00:55 PM
From: k.ramesh	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Re: Arundhati Roy - brick thru windscreen. I think that comment is to caution India(not Pakistan) against inviting the US armed forces in. ie India had offered bases and support on day 1 or 2. Arundhati Roy is a woman who shot to fame with her book ' god of small things'. Later on she has morphed into a leftist know all, among other things supporting the rights of local people against big dams and so on. She has a right to spout her stuff to her audience. She has zero effect on Indian foreign policy. You are taking two random events to draw a conclusion to suit your ends. Indian firing on the border- could be a staged event by the 'coalition' to turn the herd in a different direction, ie from marching towards Jacobabad to their favorite external enemy - India. The powers in India also probably think that Musharraf is the best for Pakistan under the current circumstances and may be trying to help him. With Powell, over there needing a 'victory', he can put out this fire and claim that all is well with India and Pakistan for now.

To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (5248)	10/15/2001 1:21:05 PM
From: Ilaine	Respond to of 281500

Another empty headed intellectual talking to hear the sound of her own voice. >>Who is America fighting? On September 20, the FBI said that it had doubts about the identities of some of the hijackers. On the same day President George Bush said, "We know exactly who these people are and which governments are supporting them." It sounds as though the president knows something that the FBI and the American public don't.<< So the President knows something the American public doesn't? Quelle surprise. So the FBI doesn't know the names of some of the hijackers? What difference does that make - we have to know their names to know who ran the operation? Get real. >>People are being asked to make two leaps of faith here. First, to assume that The Enemy is who the US government says it is, even though it has no substantial evidence to support that claim. And second, to assume that The Enemy's motives are what the US government says they are, and there's nothing to support that either.<< I already know who our enemy is just by reading her essay - it's people like her taken to the Nth degree - people who say that the US government is evil whatever it does - "the US government's record of commitment and support to exactly the opposite things - to military and economic terrorism, insurgency, military dictatorship, religious bigotry and unimaginable genocide (outside America).<< Let me pose a hypothetical - India and Pakistan are in dispute over Kashmir. If the United States does the following, which will cause the United States be called evil? a. supports Pakistan b. supports India c. supports an independent country in Kashmir d. does nothing e. all of the above Correct answer is "e."

To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (5248)	10/15/2001 1:52:24 PM
From: LLLefty	Respond to of 281500

Each week the New Republic carries a wonderful series of quotes entitled: IDIOCY WATCH. Among this week's winners were Oliver Stone ("I think the revolt on September 11 was about order...It was about F..k you,f..k your order...etc), Louis Farrakhan and, of course, Arundati Roy for this gem from her screed: What is Osama bin Laden? He's America's family secret. He is the American president's dark doppelganger. The savage twin of all that purports to be beautiful and civilised. He has been sculpted from the spare rib of a world laid to waste by America's foreign policy: Its marauding multinationals who are taking over the air we breathe, the ground we stand on, the water we drink, the thoughts we think. Now that the family secret has been spilled, the twins are blurring into one another and gradually becoming interchangeable. ..

To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (5248)	10/16/2001 2:20:36 AM
From: SirRealist	Read Replies (7) \| Respond to of 281500

Bottom line Ike: that columnist from the Guardian was right on this point: For a country involved in so much warfare and conflict, the American people have been extremely fortunate. The strikes on September 11 were only the second on American soil in over a century. The first was Pearl Harbour. The reprisal for this took a long route, but ended with Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This time the world waits with bated breath for the horrors to come. I believe we will meet horror with horror. And it's gotten to the point that I don't think anyone is asking "Why do they hate us?" anymore. The reasons have been spelled out repeatedly. And what we've learned is that under the scrutiny of truth, the reasons do not even meet the slightest definition of critical thinking.... we are hated for nothing logical at all, but simply because hate is a feeling they like to feel. Has our government erred? Yup. Bin Laden has mentioned slavery here before. We are hated for something that we ended 136 years ago! Hiroshima has been mentioned. That was 56 years ago, so the adults of that time are folks who are now 74 or older! WE are hated for something most of us had no part in! The same holds true for 1947's Israel re-installation.... those adults are 72 or older. At what point do we get judged for OUR OWN actions, not the actions of very old or dead men? We were wrong to aid the Shah? Okay, Iran got to install its own leaders, the Ayatollahs. How many of them now think that was better, relatively speaking? Yes, we erred; they did too. Error can happen, even when motives are sound. Israel? A good ally to have; it's a two way street there. And what would they gain by passivity? As you said, extremist Muslims respect strong men, not weak ones. True, except for the strong man Jew. They show Israel & the Jewish folk no respect, but they sure as heck are less likely to frontally attack Israel because they respect the idea that Israel can kick their butts and have repeatedly done so. With that example, should we learn to vacillate or have we learned the only way to deal with extremists is by superior force and the will to use it? No, when we view the few wrongs against the greater goods we have done, that we have aided Muslims when their cause is just, and so on, the bottom line is they are gonna hate us anyway. So here is something they should know: it is not true we hate Islam or Arabs. We hate haters. We hate murderers. If they think they know how to hate, I say we also know. And we will turn our hate into a force beyond the words of a message board and beyond the marchers who make brave noises miles from the action and beyond their silly notions of who we are. Dragging a dead soldier through Mogadishu? Hah! This inspired no fear... we left because we realized that sorry piece of ground was not worth one cent, never mind one life. Why bother fighting over a sewer of rats when we went there hoping to offer peace? But fighting against murderers is what we call a "Good War". It is worth many losses to rid the world of people who hate enough to kill innocents PURPOSELY. Even our bombs are not aimed at innocents as their jet-bombs were. And when we get done, we will rebuild Kabul and NYC both. What would Bin Laden build but more schools to teach murder? Now we have a baby in the US with anthrax. BIG HERO this Bin Laden ... he promotes this like an airhead cheerleader. Will he be brought to justice in our courts? Not a chance! I wish he would because the best fate for him is to be bunking in a US prison with a 300-lb Bubba who will call him O-Mama.... Are there a million extremists? 2 million? 10 million? We will take them all and make many vultures happy with their bones. I know, I know, my words are harsh and angry. Any who know me in real life are surprised to hear me utter such acidic vituperation. But my point is this: it is past the time that Americans wonder why we are hated. It is the extremists and their covert supporters, and the silent numbers even greater who condemn us but not the terrorists, behind our backs, that should be asking questions now. They should ask: what happens now that we have taught a powerful nation to hate us? And: where can we hide? And: do you really think they might nuke us? And: can it be that God is going to abandon our unjust cause and let the vultures eat our eyeballs? And when they ask these things, I can answer only this: we will do whatever it takes to eliminate murderers who would deliberately attack a baby, or a newspaper clerk or anyone anywhere who is guilty of nothing but being alive and living in a civil land. We love peace and freedom as much as any nation that ever existed but we understand sometimes it is necessary to kill sick, twisted haters who hide daggers in both hands and call this the Quran, or call it the Iron Cross of Nazis, or call it anything just, good, noble or holy. We achieved the power we have by promoting freedom and opportunity and loving our neighbors. But we also achieved it by protecting it with the deadliest forces that have never lost when the will of our people is behind our soldiers. And, precisely because the killers and their supporters, known or silent, have insisted on hating us so much, our people have put away the peace signs and picked up more will than we have seen in 56 years. You love peace Ike and so do I. I hope that Musharraf can outfox his haters and control them so folks like you can have a country that stands tall among nations. I worry when I read that the polls show anti-US, pro-Taliban sentiment shot up 40% to 80% overall when we decided to fight back. That is no small number of people to defend oneself against. I wonder sometimes: can they not conceive of the powers we possess? Do they not understand that if that sentiment compels them to go to Afghanistan to take up an unholy war against us that life can be infinitely worse? The one time we used nukes, it was because of a nation whose fanaticism viewed Hirohito as a God and our leaders felt only a convincing show of the ultimate horror could change minds, save more lives than it cost, and end the war. Do extremists or these American haters realize that this new fanaticism seems exactly the same? I am sad to think it may come to this. It is the saddest sad I have known. But I know the will and the weaponry exists. And if the Bin Ladens of the world do not sense it, or do not care, it can happen. Even the mountains of Afghanistan can not save them then. Because we hate murderers even more than they hate us. And what do they accomplish when they are dissolved like smoke? Will they prove that we can kill better? Yes. But who will they prove it to? Everyone who hates us should ask: what will be the outcome of my hate? And: is there another way that we can live and know peace, prosperity and the love of God?