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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: SirRealist who wrote (5436)	10/16/2001 2:37:58 AM
From: Climber	Respond to of 281500

Everyone who hates us should ask: what will be the outcome of my hate? And: is there another way that we can live and know peace, prosperity and the love of God? Nice. The whole post. Kudos. Climber

To: SirRealist who wrote (5436)	10/16/2001 2:43:19 AM
From: HG	Read Replies (5) \| Respond to of 281500

I have this sense of foreboding....that the world is about to become a horrible place for the next few days, months, years. I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but I hope, for sake of world peace, that Pakistan does not break under this new stress.... Returning 10 million to the Saudi prince was a great gesture, but it was done in a very insulting way. Sure, the Saudi prince was pretty insulting too, but in the name of diplomacy, where US expects other countries to eat a humble pie <step down>, the whole thing could have been managed more discreetly. Sometimes a little less arrogance goes a long way in managing relationships. One can be as effective, more effective, in a quiet, subdued, mature sort of way... I have been quiet about this, but that slap on the face of a royal, wasn't the most diplomatic thing to do. Thats not how people in Asia and Middle East do things. How can US expect him to go back and root for the US cause when his people laugh at the treatment meted out to him by his 'allies". Thats why it is important for US to understand the customs of foriegn lands before calling them friends or foes....disrespecting an ally, especially a far Eastern or a Middle Eastern ally, is a definite no no.

To: SirRealist who wrote (5436)	10/16/2001 4:51:02 AM
From: IQBAL LATIF	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

<<I read that the polls show anti-US, pro-Taliban sentiment shot up 40% to 80% overall when we decided to fight back. >> Yesterday was a total call of strike, we had SOME in Karachi out of fear but in Lahore and Rawalpindi it was alright, now coming to polls, we have a very high rate of illiteracy, it is the question of who you are talking too, people who matter in this are rarely asked, the sensationalism is far more important for networks and for pollsters. If 80% people are against any thing that would just not fly in Pakistan. We are vocal people and would not let anyone do that to us against our wishes. Nearly everyone I talk to they tell me of course that they are sad about this but lucky to escape this as a result of intelligent policy of not harbouring these –astards. Now on lighter tone let me give you an example, we own Dunkin Donuts in Pakistan, now the pro- Taliban Islamic party had announced that US products should be boycotted, to be honest our D&D sales have seen a 35% rise in last week alone, I think nothing more represent US in Pakistan than McDonald’s, KFC and Dunkin Donuts, the way people are treating our shop managers will give us earliest indication, none so far, we are flying in supplies to meet demand from Dubai as our shipment was slightly delayed, one of our shops was damaged the KFC one in Kyc but Dunkin Donuts is doing great business and we did not stop or closed for a single day. We are one of the largest sellers in Asia after Philippines, in Lahore we have now 14 kiosks opened for brand recognition in last one month, in every major institution if there was a problem and 80% was against US we could not have had this massive rise in face of fatwa to boycott our products. I see and make my observation from street level, that from street level are facts, now first it was army that would face revolt that did not materialise as he shunted out most of the top brass overnight, now the propaganda is about people that will revolt but my people are eating Donut’s and asking for more in face of religious fatwas by the largest Islamic parties not to eat these things. I can only say that ground realities are different, our employees who represent D&D on my insistence if security is an issue are not ready to close shops. I asked my GM last night in Lahore what does he think of the ground realities he told me sir, get me supplies asap. The street is happy and happy that once again we have been saved from a tragedy of disproportionate size. From 11th of Sept we were being cornered as a target, now when that failed our government is being cornered as a hostage government, now I am telling you a story of our business and I know that knowing my views anyone can go and burn it or do anything silly but I know all this is propaganda and the reality is that Pakistani stocks market is rising, people I talk are happy that we escape being target despite of best efforts of many. Right now by friend who owns Macdonald tells me that all these chains are doing roaring businesses honestly we thought that we will have to close down after war started but nothing doing, now why your net works are unable to show the icons of US businesses doing great in Pakistan and people queuing in to buy Donuts I fail to understand they will still go to a bearded man and ask a twisted and a loaded question, after all fear makes their reports far much potent. When we opened our first shop last Oct a Mullah walked in and asked me about reasons of bringing fast chins to my country. I told him it is the smallest image of development and progress, this is élan vital against every conservative element that we have to move on to the next century and these places makes us feel a part of the progress that is very much liked by most of the Pakistanis who queue to get a US visa. Streets and food represent the best of any nations streaks, on that count I see no problems we are going to be affected first so far we are doing better that is the bottom line. Your pools are faulty Sir..gg

To: SirRealist who wrote (5436)	10/16/2001 5:45:19 AM
From: bela_ghoulashi	Respond to of 281500

Outstanding post. Bravo.

To: SirRealist who wrote (5436)	10/16/2001 9:20:46 AM
From: Jill	Respond to of 281500

Nice post, Sir Realist. I was talking to an acquaintance who works at Los Alamos. The day of the WTC his boss was in Israel talking about the fact that now that we are the one superpower, we will be likely to be the target for terrorism. Prescient words on that very morning. In some ultimate sense, it's almost mathematical, like an equation. That's the bottom line of the "why".

To: SirRealist who wrote (5436)	10/16/2001 9:43:10 AM
From: Frederick Langford	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hear Hear Kev, Great Post... Fred

To: SirRealist who wrote (5436)	10/16/2001 12:00:28 PM
From: Jim Willie CB	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Islamic Fundamentalists are nothing but a Sick Cult all the earmarks of a cult we have seen them before with different colors blind obedience to the cult leader incessant incantations to numb the mind attract new members from the disenfranchised, poor, uneducated impossible to leave the cult total disregard for life, either own or others sick missions out in the world to prove power we saw it with Charles Manson with Jim Jones with that Whacko from Waco our Satanic cults are way too smart to get discovered though why dont we identify Islamic Fundies for what they are? a sick misguided cult their chanting is without meaning do they even know what the passages mean? reminds me of a young Jewish neighbor friend when I was a kid he hated reciting the Hebrew prayers he said he didnt even know what they meant of course, generally he had an idea but it was just chanting similar to my early days in Catholic Church we chanted Latin phrases with no knowledge of their meaning except "Et Cum Spiritu Tuo" we knew that was the Pope's phone number "Etcumspiri 220" schools in Pakistan teach nothing but Koran they memorize its many passages they teach no subjects like math and history except maybe what they call political science (propaganda) some education !!! pathetic, truly pathetic is gets them off the street, but what they learn is worse than nothing at all / jim