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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: HG who wrote (5527)	10/16/2001 12:33:05 PM
From: Original Mad Dog	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

you don't want them any madder than they already are... That, my friend, is the opening line in every speech advocating appeasement.

To: HG who wrote (5527)	10/16/2001 3:25:43 PM
From: CountofMoneyCristo	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

And besides, very few seem to realise here that despite what CNN is telling us, we, the people of USA, are on the brink of a much bigger disater. Making enemies isn't what I'd be doing right now.... and you don't want them any madder than they already are... - HG I am curious, are you threatening the United States? Or is this simply a case of subtle blackmail that you are just passing on to our ignorant and misinformed ears? These statements come very close in my opinion. Earlier you said "you Americans" and here you state "we, the people of the USA..." Which is it, now? The United States does not have to "do business" according to Islamic, Arab, Asian or any other ways. The United States has a far better human rights record than the regions you name. Actually, the problem here is that nations such as Saudi Arabia do not share basic values which we Americans cherish, such as - free speech, a free press, democratic elections, not stealing the entire nation's wealth and depositing it in the hands of 5 or so families, then publicly beheading "dissenters," allowing women to show their face, their long hair, their legs and the back of their hand to certain representatives of the male population if they so desire, in public, not openly calling for and directly funding the operations of elements seeking to murder members of an entire nation/culture/civilization. I don't think the United States needs to reconsider any of its policies to be more understanding of the Middle East. Quite the contrary, after what happened September 11, it is very clear now where certain lines may now be clearly drawn. There are no gray areas when discussing public execution of thousands of innocent noncombatants in the name of a religion or a cause. President Bush has made this admirably clear, bless him. Those who agree with this murder shall soon be taught a lesson in American resolve and power. If that includes Mr. Bin Talal's nation then so be it. As I stated earlier, should the United States, in seeking its defense, determine that the overrunning and occupation of a number of countries is necessary, no one can stop us. Just watch, my friend. If that's what it takes, it will happen. If these nations are complicit, then the American people will expect nothing less than this. We are not as decadent and spoiled as some may think. I do recall in relatively recent history an Austrian Dictator and some Japanese generals made the same erroneous judgment of America. The results we all know. The only difference now is that the Gulf States are no 1941 Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan. Iraq had the most powerful army in that region ten years ago. That took 72 hours on the ground... I think the Arab world may be in for quite a surprise what the United States will be doing if the terrorist attacks continue much longer and they are traced to nations and organizations of the Gulf region. The "disaster" shall be on the other side, if States are involved. States which sponsor, organize, support, or, worse, direct mass murder foreit their right to sit at the table of civilized nations, and shall be treated accordingly. They then forfeit their independence.

To: HG who wrote (5527)	10/16/2001 4:54:26 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

For the rest of the world, its business as usual. And maybe THAT'S the problem. The US equates to 33% of the world's business and unless they think we're going to totally ignore the fact that many of these economies are heavily dependent upon US markets, maybe they'd better figure out what side their bread is buttered on. Oh of course they're not true democracies. But they're stil vulnerable to public opinion..... And never will be at the rate most of these middle eastern nations are progressing. What are they thinking... that suddenly things will miraculously get better on their own without their having to deal with the corruption and grievous injustice existing in their societies?? Part of me just wants to get this over with now by having these unstable governments fall to their fanatics, so we sort out the white hats from the black hats. Part of the problem is that, in developing much of the rest of the world and providing them access to our markets, we have have had the moxy to use that economic leverage. Thus, our toleration for the nonsense from some of these illegitimate regimes has become ridiculous and undermined are true interests. Bush needs to do is hire a few third world, non aligned people to advise him of the customs and culture of the East... You know something KG... 200 million chinese aren't studying English for nothing. And there aren't hundreds of millions of Americans selling themselves into servitude to organized criminals just to escapt their plight. And THEY have a trade surplus with US, not the other way around. Which means they have more to lose than we do. They NEED to do business here in the US, not the other way around (though it certainly would be nice).. So pardon me if I'm not overly sympathetic to those who argue that we need to "understand" Asia, or how we need to understand the concept of "losing face". Or how they do business using verbal contracts based upon the "honor" of each participant and we need to just accept that. I'm all for learning the traditions of other nations. But I'm all for THEIR learning OUR traditions as well and creating a atmosphere of mutual respect. I can see how it would have pissed off a whole nation.....and you don't want them any madder than they already are... At this particular moment, I could care less how mad they are. They are NO WHERE NEAR AS ANGRY AS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. We didn't give a crap about those anti-Nazi Germans, or anti-Fascist Italians when we engaged in around the clock bombing raids on their civilian and industrial centers. What makes you think we'd give a crap about taking out ANY Arab or muslim WHO DARED to claim that it's our fault that a bunch of fanatics targeted 50,000 innocent civilians, and killed 5,000 of them. Maybe Al-Wahleed will think twice before opening his big trap and causing AMERICA to lose "face". I just wonder if the 'ol boy is big enough to apologize? Doubt it.. Hawk