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Pastimes : Understanding Islam -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (180)	10/21/2001 7:16:45 PM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 2926

Addi, Two things I wanted to address with my post, after I re-read it. I wasn't clear when I said: "Why rewrite a religion or belief? Why don't you just find the true one already out there?" You already know, I don't think there is true religion out there. I was really referencing a true belief. And that I do think is out there..... I wasn't clear in my post on that. Secondly, the Qu'ran is supposed to be God's holy word to the Muslim, given to Muhammed through the archangel Gabriel. There is no other book, in their belief, that is God's holy word. Why would the Muslims want to change God's supposed word with their own words? Are theirs better or clearer than God's? Revising the Qu'ran is truly not a reasonable option for a Muslim, and would make their religion one that would have little credibility. They would be choosing man's word over what they think is God's... God Bless, IGIT

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (180)	10/21/2001 7:42:07 PM
From: uu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 2926

> Why rewrite a religion or belief? Why don't you just find the true one already out there. Many have, including me. The problem is it is very hard to change your religion once you are born into it - especially in the Middle Eastern countries where tradition rules and everyone has to abide by those traditions (blindly sometimes - if not most often). Furthermore it is even more difficult for someone who is already labeled a Muslim (through birth) to admit believing in something other than Islam for which peer pressure would be so huge life would literally become hell for him/her! For someone who is born in a country such as the U.S it is fairly easy to change from lets say Jewdism to Christianity, or from Christianity to Islam, etc. etc. for which no one cares. It is a personal private decision. This is because the system of government is based on freedom of choice and there is a clear distinction between chruch and state. In no Islamic country in the world you can see such a distinction. Hence in a rather political correct manner, the best approach would be to sanitize the Islamic religion in a smooth manner, rather than totally eliminating or abandoning it. If Amein's of the world could all get together and re-write Koran in a language that reflects their interpretation of it (as Amein has indicated) for an average Mullsim to understand, then everyone would be happy. The Muslims would be happy because their religion would still be called Islam (eventhough it is changed 180 degree to meet the 21set century civilized requirements of life), and the rest of the civilized world would also be happy for which the number of psychopaths would hopefully be eliminated dramatically! The challenege is whether Ameins of the world have the bravery to sit down and re-write (or to phrase it in a rather "political correct" framework - "Express and translate the true meanings of Koran beyond what it promotes and adovcates at face value") and then stand before the vast majority of Muslims in the world (the likes of those people rioting (in the name of Islam) in the streets of Nigeria, Indonesia, Pakistan, Sudan, Iraq, and other islamic countries in the world, or to those 1000 18 year old kids who just graduated from this Islamic religious school in Pakistan and who at their graduation have already sworn to kill every non-Muslim there is in the world through their Jihad against the U.S and anyone supporting the U.S)! In fact it would be interesting to see how they would react to Amein if Amein stood before them and explain to them the same interpretation that he has provided to us in his last post with regard to what Koran means when it talks about destruction of non-Muslims, and to illustrate that use the example of obtaining the U.S visa to the country and doing harm to its citizens - which is an absolute un-Islamic act. I guess, I would like to see how Amein would think about this and whether he would be willing to stand before those 1000 18 year old kids who have literally memorized the Koran to the last letter (and incidentally also know the Arabic language very well), and then try to tell them that Koran does not validate their intention to Kill and destory all Americans and/or other non-Muslims and/or anyone who is with the U.S. Regards,

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (180)	10/22/2001 12:59:45 AM
From: 2MAR$	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 2926

Actually Buddha said that before Jesus , 500 yrs before , and preached the same message for over 50 yrs .... Yes I know,, I know ....Buddha was not the absolute Son of God , or was he the last prophet ... but he certainly walked the walk and talked the talk like no other in history. I wouldn't want to fight over who is the true prophet of God or who's message was the most direct and divine, and in the process destroy every essence of truth that was there to find while we --->all live . Would you ? But in the end his message proves out to be both enduring and may teach both Islam and Christianity how to find themselves . It is about knowing the truth about yourself here on earth...not up in heaven. There were many messengers , there is only one "Truth". (ancient saying from the Upanishads) good luck, Mars

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (180)	10/22/2001 9:11:28 AM
From: James Calladine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 2926

"Why rewrite a religion or belief?" "Why don't you just find the true one already out there" I agree there is no necessity to "rewrite" a religion. Whatever it may be, it exists and can be engaged or not engaged, as it is. Virtually all religions contain substantial elements of "belief", which require their adherents to accept the tenets given. And the matter of what religion you ascribe to,for the most part is achieving a "fit" between the belief structure of the religion and that of the individual. Much of that process is rooted in the isssues of one's upbringing, culture, personal influences, and what of all of that was accepted and what was rejected. Generally the matter of one's own personal religious beliefs (and how arrived at) is largely UNINSPECTED in most people. In other words, what did you come to believe, personally, from what sources of influence? And how was that changed by your encounter with your religion? "Beliefs" are at the one and the same time both the greatest strength of religions, and their greatest weakness also, for the reason that they are "thought-structures" offered to the mind, relative to the essentially unprovable. The strength is that they are the core of the religion; the weakness is that they are in the realm of mind. True religion is not a matter of the mind. It is a matter of the Heart. In my personal experience, the greatest religious resources are LIVING Teachers, whose inspiration, clarity, guidance and love, can be felt very directly by the heart. My Teacher, Adi Da, says: "Don't believe ANYTHING I say. PROVE to yourself its' Truth by your own encounter with it, and testing of it in life." (not his exact words, but that is the general gist of it) I have been a devotee of Adi Da for 17 years and I have very actively engaged the process of testing everying he given against my direct personal experience. I have not found a SINGLE untrue statement out of some 50 books and countless other video and audio tapes and personal "in the room" encounters. So I am saying: Do not just accept a belief structure of a religion (as is). Test it very strenuously against your personal experience. If it works for you, go with it. If it doesn't move elsewhere. Namaste! Jim