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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bilow who wrote (7203)	10/23/2001 11:05:58 PM
From: Copperfield	Respond to of 281500

Good post..

To: Bilow who wrote (7203)	10/23/2001 11:30:30 PM
From: Ilaine	Respond to of 281500

Wonderful post. Made tears come to my eyes.

To: Bilow who wrote (7203)	10/24/2001 12:14:43 AM
From: uu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Carl: You are indeed an idealist and I do believe in what you are saying. And for that I do respect you beyond I can possibly express. However I think you gave the wrong speech to the wrong person! The issue at hand was Islam and its danger evil ways to the world. You somehow ended up confusing the issue with our free way of life and idealistic American values. You called me a bigot against Muslims. And that did indeed hurt. I am not a bigot against Muslims. For pete's sake some of my best friends are Muslims. What I am against is people who are for death and destruction, and take advantage of our free-thinking society and the idealistic values for which it stands for in order to fulfill their own self-serving evil purposes. Therefore I certainly did not appreciate your characterization of me as a bigot. Regretfully there are certain things that need to be learned the hard way. When it comes to Islam no matter what I say you will mock me as a bigot against Muslims. I do not blame you for that, for which you do not know. When one does not know and understand one mocks. So I will leave it to time for you to understand Islam the hard way – and as time progresses you will learn about the realities of this world when it comes to Islam. But regretfully it will be the hard way. Islam is not just about the translation of Koran that you posted by some Harvard professor. To understand Islam you need to understand the very cultural and social structure of the society from where the followers of Islam come from. Here in the U.S American Muslims follow the interpretation and translation of Koran that is provided to them by scholars and Harvard type intellectuals and educators. In Islamic countries (the likes of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Sudan, Algeria, and the rest) Muslims do not follow your - and your Harvard professor’s interpretation of Koran - but the interpretation that is provided to them by someone like Mullah Omar, or Khomeini groupies. I am afraid you - and with all due respect to you - you have absolutely no clue about Islam outside of the Harvard professor’s translation of Koran with all its positive spins, and the free thinking idealistic American values that you have been brought up with. Yes, of course U.S is about tolerance of ideologies. Otherwise I would not be here and instead would be dead in Iran! However, and at the same time there is a limit to this tolerance. You can be as idealistic as you want to be. But do not hide your head in the sand and pretend that everyone else in the world is as idealistic and understanding as you are, and that everyone else welcomes and appreciates your idealism for freedom, mutual respect and fairness. The 19 terrorists that blew up the WTC on September 11 certainly did not appreciate your idealism (and incidentally they came to be familiar with your idealism very well and after living in our free society for more than 8 years). They did follow Islam based on Koran's teachings as interpreted by their scholars (and not yours or mine). Their scholars include Mullah Omar, and Khomeini groupies. And in its pure sense of meaning they did exactly what Koran told them to do based on the interpretation they received. If you honestly believe that you can go and stand in front of Muslims in any of the Islamic countries on this planet and discuss with them the true meanings of Koran (as defined by you and your Harvard professor interpretation and translation of Koran), and "educate" them with how you understand Koran is all about - then I am afraid you are too idealistic to be for real . And for what is its worth I strongly suggest at some point in your life to travel out side of the U.S, and learn about other societies such as the Islamic countries of this world, and see things for yourself first hand. Do not hide your head in your idealistic sand, and instead try to learn about their cultural, and social backgrounds, and learn about how the Islamic framework has brought so much harm to them – and to the world. And perhaps then you can learn of the realities of this world. Yes, Islam and Koran - as translated by Western intellectuals and professors, and scholars is a love peaceful religion (simply because they view the world based on the teachings they have learned from the free thinking society that they live in). But in reality and outside of the western world, Islam is anything but what they assume it to be. So if that means you mocking me a bigot against Muslims, then so be it. I am expressing what I know (based on my personal experience, education, and background, and you do not. Yes, your post was filled with idealistic beautiful words and phrases. All of which I also believe. However what it lacks is realism of the world outside the social, political and economic boundaries that you live. And for that lack of realism and ignorance – that is a characterization of a vast majority of Americans when it comes to Islam - regretfully we are in the mess that we are in currently. Regards,

To: Bilow who wrote (7203)	10/24/2001 2:08:24 AM
From: Neeka	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

This is a mongrel nation. This is the land where the children of Palestinian exiles meet, fall in love with and marry the children of Jewish immigrants. We take the best from every people that comes here, and we both thrive. The real problem that Osama bin Laden has with us is "cultural imperialism". That means that our culture is so attractive that it keeps leaking into the rest of the world. Excellent post Bilow. It is this that makes us so unique imo. The mixing of the human gene pool. The coming together of the cultures, the faiths, the religions and the bloodlines. In nature there is strength in diversity. When the intermingling of different strains of dna takes place wondrous things happen. A coming together of all the qualities that humans possess gives us that much more of an opportunity to pass on the inherent attributes and possibilities that produce outstanding individuals. Once those individuals are here they are subject to a variety of beliefs and that encourages understanding. That is the nature of the American psyche, and it is formed through those realities, thus creating a more peaceful and tolerant society. That is all just my biased, American slant on things, and is in no way meant to disparage other cultures or societies. M