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To: Ron McKinnon who wrote (34027)10/27/2001 10:48:28 AM
From: E.J. Neitz Jr  Respond to of 53068
 
From One of the sharpest minds around--for the thinker only:

pimco.com

Todays Barrons:

Forever Bullish

By Jaye Scholl

Congenital optimist.

Time-worn it may be, but that descriptive cliché fits our old friend and former Roundtable stalwart to a T. So it's no surprise these sere days, when our daily routines are suddenly fraught with menace, when the economy seems trapped in the quicksand of recession and the stock market has been stripped of its sheen, that Peter is striving to rally the investment masses.

It's hard to turn the pages of your favorite newspaper or flip the channels without being stared back at by the sober and reassuringly familiar visage of Peter, exhorting one and all to keep the faith in equities. His near-ubiquitous forum of TV and print ads comes via the patronage of Peter's long-time sponsor, Fidelity Investments.

As always, Peter refuses to be distracted by the burning trees and sees only the verdant forest. Others may fret and frown about an economic landscape rendered desolate by rising joblessness, shriveled capital spending, collapsing profits. Peter gazes serenely at that same dreary prospect and conjures up a vision of an economy revitalized by government spending, low interest rates, a solid banking system and buoyant demand for housing.

Historically, the stock market has been the place to be, Peter reminds us. "Which way the next 1,000 to 2,000 points in the market will go is anybody's guess, but I believe strongly that the next 10,000, 20,000 and 40,000 points will be up," he declaims, adding rather proudly that his views haven't changed from those he held two weeks ago, two years ago or 20 years ago.

And they haven''t, we can attest, having known Peter for going on 20 years. In all kinds of market weather, his optimism has been relentless. To judge by the action of the stock market in recent weeks, one can only conclude that lots of folks are responding to Peter's pitch or, at least, are in full sympathy with it.

We have no quarrel with the notion that the next 10,000 points will be up, if only because were the next 10,000 points down, the stock market as we know it would not exist. But we do question the blithe dismissal of the direction of the next 2,000 or even 1,000 points. As painfully demonstrated to investors these past two years, a ton of damage can be inflicted in a speck of time.

In short, we wonder if the trusting souls putting their money where Peter's advice is aren't due for disappointment. And our concerns on this score were mightily reinforced by the kindred skepticism of Bill Gross. For Bill, who's top dog at Pacific Investment Management Company (or Pimco to its familiars), with a cool quarter of a trillion dollars in its portfolios, boasts credentials and credibility in the bond world as impressive as Peter's are in equities. But where Peter sees the glass brimming over, Bill sees it half empty -- at best.

If Peter is the eternal bull, Bill is the perennial realist, employing a much more unsentimental approach to investing. And in his latest monthly commentary, posted on Pimco's website, Bill tees off on the Fidelity ads, accusing Peter of offering investment advice from his heart rather than his head.

To find out more specifically what got his dander up, we checked in with Bill at his Newport, California, office. Peter, after all, had written a cheerful blurb for Bill's book, "Everything You've Heard About Investing Is Wrong," a slender volume, published in 1997, that predicted the end of the long bull markets in both stocks and bonds within three years. (Not a bad call, come to think of it.)

The ads, it emerges, struck Bill as little more than a sales spiel. But more than that, he believes Peter's soothing words obscure how dismal the investment fundamentals truly are. Start with the fact that the stock market has more than made up all the ground lost in the post-September 11 sell-off, while the bond market remains sharply lower. Typically, he stresses, the two move together.

"So are stock investors smarter or more prescient that bond investors?," Bill asks. Maybe, but in part, anyway, he suggests the stock market's bounce is nothing more than a reallocation rally. In the past month, he recounts, big pension funds have withdrawn more than $2 billion from Pimco (poor Pimco, it only has $250 billion left) and put the money in stocks, warmly congratulating Bill on his performance, but explaining they'd somehow discovered their portfolios were underweighted in equities.

But also providing a sizable lift to the stock market, Bill says, is a growing conviction among investors that the recession will be short if not sweet and followed by a brisk, dramatic, V-shaped recovery. Which, in Bill's reckoning, ain't necessarily so.

For one thing, he's disturbed by the remorseless rise in new claims for unemployment insurance, which have reached their highest level since 1983, when the economy was just beginning to poke its head up after suffering the worst postwar recession. The recent volume of claims, Bill calculates, prefigures at least a 7% unemployment rate.

Swelling joblessness is not exactly conducive to a surge in consumer purchases and he's plainly skeptical that further interest rates will get the folks to spend big-time. Especially in the kind of economic environment he foresees, rife with debt downgrades, rising corporate bankruptcies and mounting mortgage and credit-card delinquencies.

And when the economy does finally pull itself free from recession, which he thinks might happen about the middle of next year, it'll enjoy a quite grudging recovery, with GDP growing at a leisurely pace of 2% or so.

If he's right, a lot of investors taking the big plunge into the stock market in anticipation of a quick return to boom times are quite evidently going to be wrong.

Nor is he overly sanguine about the outlook for the bond market. Compared to this year's total return of some 10%, bond investors will have to settle for 6% or thereabouts next year (which might not prove too shabby if the stock market tanks or just disappoints.) The bull market in bonds, he feels, is pretty much over and we can now expect steady but more subdued returns.

Pimco, Bill relates, is buying German and United Kingdom bonds of relatively short maturity -- two to four years -- as a play on the likelihood that the European Central Bank, which has lagged the Fed in cutting rates, will get more aggressive as recessionary pressures build. If you're thinking of taking a flier on high-yielding stuff in emerging markets, his advice is…don't. He wouldn't be surprised if Argentina defaulted in the next few months, with a ripple effect on Brazil and elsewhere.

All in all, Bill Gross is convinced this is a great time for investors to keep their emotions in check and their powder dry. Peter Lynch, please note.



To: Ron McKinnon who wrote (34027)10/27/2001 10:50:36 AM
From: Larry S.  Respond to of 53068
 
Good overview. From the perspective of a long-only basically investor type person, I would add look at PEs, dividend yields, debt load, solidity of company, management, market niche - all the old standards that were for the most part cast aside in the 90s mania.
Good article in Barrons today about valuations, and Bill's article is chilling.
Here is a big snippet :

"Consider Richard Hunter of Lighthouse Capital. When the market reopened after the September 11 attacks, he scouted for companies that generated cash earnings prior to goodwill writedowns, and that had gross margins of about 50% in the third quarter. He also sifted for stocks trading at no more than two times book value.

Scholla prefers companies that pay a "decent" dividend, have a strong balance sheet and preferably sell for a low price/earnings ratio. He bought Ford, which even after a dividend cut still yields 3.5%; Deluxe, a printing company with a P/E of 13 and a 4% dividend yield; and Sunoco, which yields 2.5% and sells for just 7 times earnings.

Kevin Bernzott screens for companies with a 10-year history of increasing earnings or dividends; ideal candidates have done both. He's also interested in comparatively low price-to-equity, price-to-book value and debt-to-equity ratios. Today his firm owns only 17 stocks, including Washington REIT, which yields 5.2%, American Water Works and Safeco, an insurer that pays a 2.3% dividend.

But Bernzott occasionally bends the rules, as he did on September 27, when he added to his Cisco position. Although the stock didn't pop up on his screens, he was attracted by its 79% drop from a closing high of 80.06 in March 2000. The company has about $5 billion in cash, no debt and a management team that built an enviable track record over the past 14 years. Cisco, he says, "is to Internet connectivity what McDonald's is to hamburgers." And, yes, he owns McDonald's, too.

So far Bernzott has made the right bet on his latest Cisco purchase. The stock has climbed 6.20 to 17.44 in the past month.

But Cisco remains almost as controversial now as it was at its zenith. Some Big Money respondents listed the stock among their current favorites, but it also topped the list of most overvalued issues, along with doughnut-maker Krispy Kreme.

The Cisco debate highlights a larger divergence of opinion about the prospects for most technology shares. Thirty percent of Big Money investors expect the tech sector to lead the market in the next 6-12 months, just a hair above the bullish consensus last spring. But tech has tumbled indisputably from the pillar on which it was placed in our October 2000 poll. At that time 53% of the managers expected technology to lead the market higher.

These days, investors are giving the nod to more conservative stocks. Seventeen percent of respondents expect health care to lead the market in the months ahead, while energy garnered 10%, and consumer staples 9% of the managers' votes.

Wagner Capital's Hertzberg owns consumer names such as PepsiCo and Johnson & Johnson because of their defensive characteristics. Pepsi's stock price won't double, he concedes, but the company has recession-proof businesses in snack foods and sodas. With a 1.29% dividend yield, Hertzberg believes Pepsi shares should return 10%-15% a year. "Pepsi and J&J are the kinds of companies you can buy and hold for a lifetime," he says.

More industrial names such as Tyco International and General Electric also appear among the managers' favorites. (The latter, of course, is also a major play on finance.) J&J, Pfizer and Microsoft, too, have managed to claim top spots. Coleman tries to reduce risk by placing 70% of his portfolio in what he deems safe stocks, or issues with the potential for 10% gains and the risk of no more than a 20% decline. In that basket, he includes BellSouth as well as GE. The rest of the portfolio is invested in beaten-down wireless stocks.

Other controversial names continue to dot the list of issues the managers think most overvalued, notwithstanding the stocks' dramatic declines in recent quarters.

For example, Amazon.com still makes the cut, though the shares have sunk to 7.90 from a December 1999 high of 106.68.

The aforementioned Krispy Kreme owes its dubious honor to a price/earnings multiple of more than 100. And eBay, the Internet stock renowned for actually making money, apparently doesn't make enough to satisfy our picky crew. The shares, at 56, carry a P/E of 179.

"There are still some stocks that are overvalued," says Coleman. "But they aren't in the majority anymore."

And that is exactly what makes the Big Money bulls so hopeful.



To: Ron McKinnon who wrote (34027)10/27/2001 11:49:34 AM
From: Kelvin Taylor  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 53068
 
"I am now a longer term cautious bull"

meaning your mind is subject to change with the market direction. if we have another unexpected event or if the signs for recovery don't materialize as quickly as the "experts" say then what happens?

you know as well as I do the best defense of capital in these market conditions is trading. those who bot the large caps and held too long now see prices that have returned to 1998 levels. buy the dips, sell/short the rallies. EVERYBODY is bullish looking out(1yr, 5yr or 20yrs)

if the stocks you are long in rise quickly then you will sell and short the ones that look toppy. do you really plan to hold a stock that runs say 50% in a week or two?

hold a core long term positions are fine. I have a few. but the bulk is trading stocks. you want the profit from the sell, not the stock itself just in case the market decides to go south again right?