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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Raymond Duray who wrote (7860)	10/28/2001 12:41:11 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Oh, that nonsense. I was looking for "Haiphong" as you said to. If you believe that we fought Vietnam for Standard Oil's sake -- at a time when oil was cheap and plentiful-- rather than containing Communism, nobody's rational discourse is going to persuade you otherwise. I know the drill -- all American's actions during the Cold War were guiding by corporate malevolence; the actions of the Soviet Union never had anything to do with the case.

To: Raymond Duray who wrote (7860)	10/28/2001 5:56:09 PM
From: Brumar89	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Standard Oil was making a claim on enemy territory, and the U.S. government was in the process of backing up this bogus claim with 60,000 American soldiers lives. Get the picture? In an earlier post on this subject, you cited your belief was based on: . . a friend who was a legal secretary in San Francisco and she typed up the contract between Standard Oil of California and the French Consulate, representing the interests of the French Government concerning concessions for tracts off Haiphong harbor. This occurred in 1964. You should be aware that American involvement in Vietnam began well before 1964. See excerpts from the site below: historyplace.com May 1961 - President Kennedy sends 400 American Green Beret 'Special Advisors' to South Vietnam to train South Vietnamese soldiers in methods of 'counter-insurgency' in the fight against Viet Cong guerrillas. The role of the Green Berets soon expands to include the establishment of Civilian Irregular Defense Groups (CIDG) made up of fierce mountain men known as the Montagnards. These groups establish a series of fortified camps strung out along the mountains to thwart infiltration by North Vietnamese. . . . October 1961 - To get a first-hand look at the deteriorating military situation, top Kennedy aides, Maxwell Taylor and Walt Rostow, visit Vietnam. "If Vietnam goes, it will be exceedingly difficult to hold Southeast Asia," Taylor reports to the President and advises Kennedy to expand the number of U.S. military advisors and to send 8000 combat soldiers. Defense Secretary McNamara and the Joint Chiefs of Staff recommend instead a massive show of force by sending six divisions (200,000 men) to Vietnam. However, the President decides against sending any combat troops. October 24, 1961 - On the sixth anniversary of the Republic of South Vietnam, President Kennedy sends a letter to President Diem and pledges "the United States is determined to help Vietnam preserve its independence..." President Kennedy then sends additional military advisors along with American helicopter units to transport and direct South Vietnamese troops in battle, thus involving Americans in combat operations. Kennedy justifies the expanding U.S. military role as a means "...to prevent a Communist takeover of Vietnam which is in accordance with a policy our government has followed since 1954." The number of military advisors sent by Kennedy will eventually surpass 16,000. . . . . August 1, 1962 - President Kennedy signs the Foreign Assistance Act of 1962 which provides "...military assistance to countries which are on the rim of the Communist world and under direct attack." August 1962 - A U.S. Special Forces camp is set up at Khe Sanh to monitor North Vietnamese Army (NVA) infiltration down the Ho Chi Minh trail. ..... August 26, 1963 - President Kennedy and top aides begin three days of heated discussions over whether the U.S. should in fact support the military coup against Diem. August 29, 1963 - Lodge sends a message to Washington stating "...there is no possibility, in my view, that the war can be won under a Diem administration." President Kennedy then gives Lodge a free hand to manage the unfolding events in Saigon. However, the coup against Diem fizzles due to mistrust and suspicion within the ranks of the military conspirators. September 2, 1963 - During a TV news interview with Walter Cronkite, President Kennedy describes Diem as "out of touch with the people" and adds that South Vietnam's government might regain popular support "with changes in policy and perhaps in personnel." Also during the interview, Kennedy comments on America's commitment to Vietnam "If we withdrew from Vietnam, the Communists would control Vietnam. Pretty soon, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Malaya, would go..." I don't know if Chevron was actually interested in exploring for oil offshore North Vietnam. If in fact, they were, they certainly would have wanted war to be avoided so they could get exploration rights from North Vietnam. Why are people drawn to silly conspiracy theories?