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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: arun gera who wrote (8814)11/4/2001 12:24:10 AM
From: Bilow  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
Hi arun gera; Re Chomsky's argument that indirect effects should be counted...

Re: "Indirect damage matters! Ask the firemen and cops who perished in the WTC." (1) I can't, they're dead. (2) There were no firemen or cops killed in Somalia.

Re: "Are you going to count the deaths of the postal workers in the anthrax cases as victims of terrorism?" Yes. "But theoretically they could have been saved by Cipro administered at the right time." If your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle, but what does that have to do with Chomsky's argument about the indirect deaths in Somalia? By the way, my guess is that it's homegrown terrorists that did the anthrax.

Re: "Why are so many us in USA so eager to bomb the hell out of other countries without understanding fully the reasons? Is it because our civilian populations have never been bombed?" Yes, American citizens are quite bloodthirsty and really don't care much about the effects of American foreign policy. You can go into any bar and find this out. But it has nothing to do with our citizens having never been bombed. You can go into any bar on the planet and observe the same human behavior from the citizens of that nation, whether they've been bombed or not. Yes, there's a lot of talk about how compassionate they are, but the fact is that this planet is populated with the descendants of the people who killed the losers. What do you expect from them?

I mean really! This is human nature, get used to it. Egyptians or Palestinians cheering when the WTC collapsed is hardly classifiable as bizarre human behavior. Americans cheered when we nuked Japan, and when the Navy killed Qaddafi's son. The last moments of enemy soldiers, as filmed by precision guided munitions, are video hits in the US, and play on the news nightly. Is there ever any sympathy for their sisters and mothers? No! Is there any sympathy in Somalia for the relatives of the US soldiers they dragged dead through the streets? I doubt it.

I'm not saying that human nature is by nature only cruel, just to note that this is what passes for normal behavior among homo sapiens. You may not want to admit it, but this is what people are like. Yes, humans are hypocritical too, what a surprise, LOL!!!

At the same time humans also have very peaceful and beautiful natures. You can abandon a typical baby nearly anywhere on this planet (and certainly anywhere in the US) and fully expect total strangers to raise it like one of their own. The Taliban Afghanis who swear our destruction insist on providing our prisoners with the best of food.

In fact, humans amaze me with their ability to forgive. For examples from this thread see #reply-16561588 #reply-16561581 #reply-16561566 #reply-16561566 .

By the way, I'm not defending the bombing of the Asprin / drug factory. At the time I was horrified by it, as were a lot of other Republicans. My complaint here is with Chomsky's use of indirect calculations to compute deaths and comparing the Asprin / drug factory to the WTC. If all military and terrorist activity could be executed as bloodlessly as the Somalia attack the world would be a far, far, far safer place.

And anyway, the whole world is connected economically, and the indirect consequences of destroying the WTC will be felt far more badly in the 3rd world than in the US. Like you said, "there are no safety nets such as social security and medicare" there, and when they lose their jobs making stuff for export to the United States there will be pain unimaginable.

If he wants to make "indirect" calculations, he might as well do it the right way. Eve ate the apple, so blame it all on her. This is actually more convenient than it appears at first; she's dead and is quite safe from anything but blame.

-- Carl