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To: Wyätt Gwyön who wrote (108908)	11/20/2001 2:17:53 PM
From: Mike Torrence	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 152472

" a bubbleonian is happy because of a 30% rally even if he is still down 30% on the year and 90% from his all-time hihg." You've got to start somewhere.

To: Wyätt Gwyön who wrote (108908)	11/20/2001 2:31:16 PM
From: Jordan Levitt	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 152472

<<a bubbleonian is happy because of a 30% rally even if he is still down 30% on the year and 90% from his all-time hihg. a bear, or rather a rational person, looks at fundamental values and understands that even a market of crappy stocks like we have in certian amreican IT cos can rally like hell, the crappier hte better. but that doesn't change underlying value 1 iota. >> So, there are only "bubbleonians" and bears, and only the bears are rational and able to calculate the value of a company. Well that is quite a conclusion. First of all, in terms of rationality, the market goes up approximately about twice as much as it goes down, so is it really irrational to be a Bull ? Is there no room for a pragmatist ? One who makes rational decisions about current price versus future value ? BTW, being a bear can be just as much of a trap as can being a bull...there are reams of bears who are right once every business cycle. Big deal!

To: Wyätt Gwyön who wrote (108908)	11/20/2001 2:52:17 PM
From: Uncle Frank	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 152472

>> that is the difference between fundamental value and quotational value. Allow me to point out another difference. "Quotational value" is a statement of fact at a given point in time, whereas "fundamental value" is an opinion based on an array of assumptions and unavoidably influenced by the preparer's personal biases. >> a bear, or rather a rational person, looks at fundamental values... A rational person/investor wouldn't be a bear or a bull. The rational approach would be to remain neutral, and attempt to capitalize on imbalances in the market. >> crappy stocks like we have in certian amreican IT cos can rally like hell... but that doesn't change underlying value 1 iota. That's true, but there will also be rallies in good stocks that will be sustainable. The 18 month bear market hasn't changed their underlying value 1 iota. uf