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To: Cooters who wrote (108945)11/21/2001 6:55:50 PM
From: Sawtooth  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 152472
 
Same to you, Coots!

I don't know which I'm looking forward to the most; the turkey with all the fixin's, the leftovers and sandwiches in the evening, or munching on the appetizers all day until dinner. ; )

Probably it's just getting away from work, putting the finishing touches on the Christmas lights, and spending time with the family.

Best.

.....VVVVVVV



To: Cooters who wrote (108945)11/21/2001 9:13:26 PM
From: Jon Koplik  Respond to of 152472
 
Off topic -- turkey discussion (from Los Angeles Times).

THANKSGIVING PREPARATION GUIDE

In Search of the Great Turkey

By JENNIFER LOWE, Deputy Food Editor

FROM THE TIMES ARCHIVES -- Fresh or frozen?
Free-range or organic? Basted or not? There are
enough debates at the Thanksgiving table without
throwing the turkey into it.

So, while barbecues were firing up for summer, the
Times Test Kitchen started testing turkeys. Fresh
turkeys. Frozen turkeys. Free-range and organic
turkeys. Supermarket brands, national brands, small
specialty brands. In all, we roasted more than 20 birds
over four months, each time using the same basic
recipe.

What makes a good turkey? It depends.

For instance, our fresh Willie Bird--a premium
mail-order turkey from a small grower in
Sonoma--perplexed many tasters; its meat had a more
fibrous texture and a wild, gamy taste. The flavor was
unfamiliar to those who grew up eating plain,
unexciting turkey meat. But three or four of the more
refined palates among us said this was a pretty good
bird.

On the other hand, a frozen Butterball--pleasant but
unremarkable--had its fans too. Those tasters liked it
because it was familiar.

The basic consideration for most of us is fresh versus
frozen. What we found was not surprising at first. In
side-by-side blind taste comparisons of turkeys in the
12- to 14-pound range, fresh turkeys usually were
preferred by the majority of our tasters. As they
nibbled dark and light meat, tasters said they liked the
moistness of the fresh birds.

"This tastes like your grandmother's house in the
country," one taster said, striving for the right metaphor to explain the fresh-turkey
taste.

Another fresh bird that drew thumbs-up was described as so fresh "it must have
flown in by itself."

In comparison, tasters wrinkled their noses at most of the frozen turkeys, calling
their meat "sawdusty," "crumbly" and "chewy and stringy."

But then a funny thing happened. One frozen bird was chosen over a fresh. A few
weeks later, it happened again. "Succulent." "Lots of turkey flavor." "I think this
one's going to be a sandwich," our tasters said.

Our final favorites, prepared and sampled for a second tasting, challenged some of
our existing notions about turkeys. Of the three turkeys we liked best, one was
fresh, one was frozen and one belonged to the nebulous new category that's neither
fresh nor frozen but somewhere in between: a fresh Empire Kosher, a frozen
Shelton's and a "refrigerated" Norbest.

About 40% of the turkeys consumed this holiday will be fresh, according to figures
from the National Turkey Federation, an industry trade group. The federation
expects that number to rise in coming years; time-pressed consumers prefer the
convenience of fresh turkeys. A frozen turkey needs days to thaw, eating up
refrigerator space, while a fresh turkey is ready to go in the roasting pan as soon as
it's brought home.

Besides, say some producers and other experts, freezing can result in a dry turkey.
That's because when turkeys are frozen, the cell structure of the meat can be
disrupted, allowing the moisture to leak out when the bird is defrosted.

But if turkeys are frozen immediately after processing--"flash-frozen" in blast
freezers where temperatures are about 30 degrees below zero and wind speed of 60
mph is created--and then carefully defrosted, meat cells can be kept from breaking
down, manufacturers say.

To counter dryness, manufacturers inject or "baste" turkeys with a liquid solution
equal to between 3% and 12% of a turkey's weight. Labels must list the percentage
of solution and the ingredients--often turkey broth, water, a fat such as vegetable
oil, spices and salt.

A number of the turkeys tasted by The Times were salty right off the bat, and
sometimes the salt seemed unevenly distributed in a turkey. A bite of white meat
from the center of the breast, for example, might have been much saltier than a
chunk of dark meat from the leg. Some tasters found the salt overbearing or
thought it gave a more "processed" taste, and others thought the salt improved the
flavor. It turns out that in most cases, those birds were frozen; few fresh turkeys
are basted.

In a couple of instances, the saltiness masked an underlying flavor that was
described as "gamy" or "fishy." It was difficult to tell whether the turkey had been
lying around a freezer case for a while, which could have caused a slight off-taste.
(Manufacturers say that for the holidays, frozen turkeys are shipped to retailers at
most a few months before November, while fresh turkeys are shipped no more
than a week or two before Thanksgiving.)

"A lot of manufacturers inject their [frozen] turkeys to enhance the turkey and end
up with moisture to maintain that flavor profile," says Janice Price, vice president of
marketing for Empire Kosher Poultry Inc., which two months ago decided to start
injecting its frozen turkeys with a 3% turkey broth and salt solution.

Because its turkeys must meet strict kosher requirements, Empire's frozen and
fresh turkeys are salted, then soaked in cold water, rather than processed in hot
water, the method used by other processors. The salt, Price says, acts as a
tenderizer as well as maintaining a turkey's juices. Occasionally Empire receives
complaints of an overly salty turkey, but the two prepared in the Times kitchen
were not noticeably salty.

Rather, another turkey in the final tasting--the Norbest--was pegged for its
saltiness, but that seemed to add to its popularity. Norbest Inc., a Utah-based
cooperative of turkey growers that produces fresh, frozen and refrigerated turkeys,
bastes its birds with a 5% solution of broth, salt and "natural flavors" all over--"legs,
thighs, drumsticks, all parts of the breast and wings," says Paul Reed, director of
marketing. Some producers baste turkeys only in a few spots, Reed says, usually
the breast meat.

The Norbest turkey was the only one in our tasting that is part of a new and fairly
obscure category of turkeys that as yet has no official name. In a ruling last year,
the U.S. Department of Agriculture said turkeys could be labeled "fresh" only if
stored at 26 degrees or above, and turkeys stored at 0 degrees or below must be
labeled "frozen." But in between is the odd category of not quite fresh or
frozen--turkeys stored between 1 and 25 degrees--which Norbest calls
"refrigerated."

The California Poultry Industry Federation had campaigned for some sort of ruling
to prohibit producers from using words like "never frozen" on turkeys that were
clearly colder and thawing.

The percentage of these mid-range birds on the market is small, says Bill Mattos,
president of the poultry group.

Whether it was because the store where we purchased our Norbest had put it in the
freezer, or whether it was at the low end of the 1- to 25-degree range, ours was
pretty hard and did need some thawing.

The third turkey that did well in our tasting, from Shelton's Poultry Inc., a small
producer in Pomona, brought another characteristic to the table: It was a frozen
"free-range" bird.

"Most commercial turkeys are raised in barns--they live in houses their entire lives,"
says Gary Flanagan, president of Shelton's. "We move ours to a range pen. . . .
They have plenty of feed and water, and we think they're just healthier."

A free-range bird is one that has access to the outdoors. Some free-range turkeys
also are free of antibiotics, used to promote growth, but not all. And, according to
government regulations, no hormones can be given to any poultry.

Shelton's is one of only a few producers that raise organic turkeys, which eat only
costly organically grown feed. Organic turkeys are among the priciest for
consumers; prices run about $3 per pound and higher, compared to $2 to $3 per
pound for other fresh turkeys.

Our tasters thought the Shelton's "had a good turkey flavor," but no one identified a
taste that might have indicated this was a free-range bird.

Often those who buy specially labeled poultry--whether free-range or organic--do
so for other reasons. "There is an emotional attachment to the idea of free-range,"
says Sarah G. Birkhold, an assistant professor in the poultry science department at
Texas A&M University.

Birkhold has found only one thing that affects the taste of a turkey before it reaches
the oven, and that's whether it has been injected with a baste. Though the baste
may make a turkey more moist, it also imparts a perception of moisture, she says.
"A small amount of oil or fat will enhance salivation; the turkey will seem juicier [as
one eats]."

Likewise, people assume that dark meat is more moist, she says, but it really has
only about 1% more moisture than white meat. Indeed, tasters in the Test Kitchen
often described a turkey's dark meat as juicy and its white meat as dry. The
difference, again, is one of perception, Birkhold says; dark meat has more fat,
which makes it juicier, though not necessarily more moist.

"Flavor is a combination of taste, aroma, texture, mouth-feel--it all works together,"
she says.

Other questions were raised during our tastings: Does a turkey's age affect taste?
Its size? Whether it's a hen or a tom?

Not all turkey labels list the bird as hen or tom, but manufacturers use size as a rule
of thumb: Hens generally are smaller, typically not much larger than 12 pounds;
hens also are slaughtered younger, typically between 14 and 16 weeks old. (Toms
usually are processed at 18 to 20 weeks.) Most manufacturers say that younger
turkeys are more tender, but the only clue a consumer may have to a turkey's age at
processing is whether the label says "young," as in "young tom."

As for that fishy taste, we can't be sure, but we may have had a turkey that had
suffered freezer burn or dehydration. A turkey can be frozen up to a year,
according to the National Turkey Federation, though companies such as Butterball
recommend freezing for no more than six to seven months for peak freshness.

It could have been, too, that one of our tasters had an extremely sensitive palate and
actually was detecting creatine, a substance present in muscle tissue that could lend
a slight bitter taste, Birkhold says.

But there's no debate about this: A slathering of gravy will hide most anything.

Copyright 2001 Los Angeles Times



To: Cooters who wrote (108945)11/21/2001 9:36:11 PM
From: Jon Koplik  Respond to of 152472
 
"Turkey, selectively bred so fat for so long ..." (From The San Diego Union-Tribune).

Decades of breeding fat turkeys yields sumptuous Thanksgiving

By Paul Elias
ASSOCIATED PRESS

November 21, 2001

SAN FRANCISCO – Pity the Thanksgiving turkey, selectively bred so fat for so
long that simply walking can be a problem and sex is no longer possible.

For at least 50 years, farmers have single-mindedly plucked the fattest and fastest
growing turkeys from their flock and bred them together to yield the most
sumptuous breast meat. The result: this year most of the 267 million turkeys that
will be commercially sold in the U.S. have breasts so large that the males are
physically unable to mate.

Instead, fat female turkeys are artificially inseminated by man.

The commercial turkey industry is unapologetic. Turkey breeders say they're
giving us what we want for Thanksgiving.

"The U.S. consumer wants white meat," said Sherrie Rosenblatt, a spokeswoman
with the National Turkey Federation in Washington D.C. "And it goes far beyond
Thanksgiving. The sandwich you ordered at lunch is white meat."

Breeders are able to grow turkeys bigger and faster than ever through a
vitamin-laden diet and technological improvements in genetics.

The turkeys aren't genetically engineered, Rosenblatt said. In laboratories and in
the field, breeders weed out turkeys with unwanted genes while funneling coveted
ones into mass production. Female turkeys take 14 weeks to grow to 15 pounds
while male turkeys – "toms" – take 18 weeks to plump to 35 pounds.

Much of the genetic breeding process, though, is still done by sight. Workers
watch turkeys walk down an aisle and cull the lame and weak.

"They pick the animals that eat the most before they are satisfied," said Joy
Mench, a University of California, Davis professor who specializes in poultry.

White-feathered turkeys are also selected for breeding while their darker colored
relatives are culled from the flock. Dark-feathered turkeys have unsightly blemishes
on the skin.

Not all livestock experts appreciate the lengths the turkey industry has gone to
provide the nation with an abundance of white meat.

"They've bred animals that grow so fat and fast that their hearts and lungs can't
support the growth," said Gene Bauston, co-founder of Farm Sanctuary, which
aims to prevent farm animal cruelty and promotes a vegan diet. "The birds are so
heavy that their feet and legs can't support their bodies."

Bauston said he fears industry research will lead to even more efficiently grown fat
turkeys, all with nearly identical genes.

"As a result, the odds increase that the turkeys will be wiped out by a single
disease or virus," Bauston said.

Bauston said he will dine on "tofurkey," a turkey-shaped slab of tofu, and
vegetables on Thursday.

© Copyright 2001 Union-Tribune Publishing Co.



To: Cooters who wrote (108945)11/21/2001 9:49:22 PM
From: Jon Koplik  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 152472
 
Reuters -- Thanksgiving Gobbling Saddens Turkey Lovers.

November 21, 2001

Thanksgiving Gobbling Saddens Turkey Lovers

By REUTERS

Filed at 2:30 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Nearly 100 million turkeys are winging their way to
Thanksgiving tables, as part of the annual American feast -- but not Florence.

She lives in a Virginia-based sanctuary whose owner, Karen Davis, has spent the
past ten years trying to persuade the American public that turkeys are ``more than
a meal.''

``Turkeys are too neat to eat,'' said Davis, founder of the nonprofit group, United
Poultry Concerns.

Thanksgiving, a fun-filled day off work for many, is one of Davis' busiest and
saddest times.

``I am aware of what turkeys are being put through in order to have these few
hours on Thursday,'' she said in a telephone interview from her home in
Machipongo, Virginia.

``The birds are forced to grow too fast and too large. Their skeletal systems
cannot accommodate the demand of their overly heavy body.''

Last Friday, Davis and 30 other poultry activists staged a candlelight vigil in the
suburbs of Washington, waving photographs of turkeys ``in winning poses'' to
counter the caricature that the birds are ugly.

``They have a side that's cute and appealing. It's important that people see who
they are, and ask why there is so much disparagement surrounding the turkey in
the build-up to the dinner,'' she said.

Turkey has been the staple of the U.S. Thanksgiving holiday, which falls on the
last Thursday in November, since the early 17th century when English settlers
gave thanks for their survival in the new American colonies.

Following a tradition begun in 1947, President Bush granted clemency to a plump
Thanksgiving turkey called Liberty earlier this week.

Davis dismissed this as a token gesture and said the public needed to change their
Thanksgiving diet. She said she would attend a vegetarian society dinner whose
menu offered butternut squash baked with leeks and vanilla beans, followed by
wild mushroom ravioli with saut Deed spinach.

But changing holiday eating habits may be an uphill struggle for Davis in a
country which has designated hotlines helping wannabe chefs with their
Thanksgiving culinary conundrums.

One popular brand of turkey has 45 trained dietitians manning the phones of its
help-line, which solves about 2,000 turkey troubles a day.

The most common question is how to thaw a turkey. But one of the more
unusual queries came from a man, who was seeking to impress by cooking the
holiday bird. Having run out of cooking oil, he asked if motor oil would suffice.

Copyright 2001 Reuters Ltd.



To: Cooters who wrote (108945)11/21/2001 10:25:04 PM
From: Uncle Frank  Respond to of 152472
 
Thanks, Cooters. Happy Thanksgiving you, too.

Funny you should mention the Niners and the playoffs. I received the following letter today:

Dear Season Ticket Holder:

The Forty Niners are in the middle of a fantastic season and we hope you're as excited as we are! Steve Mariucci and his coaching staff are working hard to keep winning and at the same time preparing the team for a run at the National Football League Playoffs.

In fact, based on our outstanding performance so far, we've been asked by the NFL to begin the ticketing process for post season play! This letter is your invitation to secure your seat at our home playoff games.


Back in the '90s, I get this kind of letter every year, but after a few years of not being invited to the dance, I feel like I just received my first Christmas present <gg>.

uf@goniners.com



To: Cooters who wrote (108945)11/21/2001 11:57:38 PM
From: mightylakers  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 152472
 
Happy holidays to all the longs and shorts.

And go Rams, L.A. Rams that is<ggg>



To: Cooters who wrote (108945)11/22/2001 12:54:51 PM
From: Caxton Rhodes  Respond to of 152472
 
Things overheard at Thanksgiving:

1. "Talk about a huge breast!"
2. "Tying the legs together keeps the inside moist."
3. "It's Cool Whip time!"
4. "If I don't undo my pants, I'll burst!"
5. "Whew, that's one terrific spread!"
6. "I'm in the mood for a little dark meat."
7. "Are you ready for seconds yet?"
8. "It's a little dry, do you still want to eat it?"
9. "Just wait your turn, you'll get some!"
10. "Don't play with your meat."
11. "Just spread the legs open and stuff it in."
12. "Do you think you'll be able to handle all these people at once?"
13. "I didn't expect everyone to come at once!"
14. "You still have a little bit on your chin."
15. "Use a nice smooth stroke when you whip it."
16. "How long will it take after you stick it in?"
17. "You'll know it's ready when it pops up."
18. "Wow, I didn't think I could handle all of that!"
19. "How many are coming?"
20. "That's the biggest one I've ever seen!"
21. "Just lay back and take it easy...I'll do the rest."
22. "How long do I beat it before it's ready?"