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To: Hawkmoon who wrote (24693)	11/24/2001 1:42:07 PM
From: Lee Lichterman III	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 52237

This is the wrong thread for this topic so let's take it to PM or a political thread if you wish to continue. Your last post is so full of holes though that I wouldn't know where to start. The US armed Iraq when we were against Iran in the 70s. We were also the first to back Castro and he only went to the Soviet side when we abandoned him. As for the middle east, those regimes would have been dead long ago if we didn't arm them to the teeth to keep the population under the control of a small family empire that promised us Oil. Get out of the popular press and read some political science books or some books/speeches by ex CIA heads etc. Our hands are a lot more dirty than you realize. I suppose you think Kennedy was a great President too, especially his civil rights record. -ggg- Believe what you want, most of America does. This conversation has already gone past where I wanted to. My point was only that the US will always have an enemy to fuel defense spending, research and to keep an "us vs them" attitude. Good Luck, Lee

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (24693)	11/25/2001 7:52:49 PM
From: JRI	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 52237

OT Cuba With all due respect to opinions voiced (I haven't read all, but here's mine)... Cuba has what it deserves. The Cuban people (living on the island).... for whatever reason, are not strong-willed enough to truly fight for democracy and for freedom. It is irrevelant if Castro controls the military, the police, the government, etc. This has been done before, and much better than a loser like Castro. What does not exist among Cubans, either those "claiming" (in some cases true, in some cases not) to be Cuban in Miami, and those still on the island, is the will to die for their country, the will to fight for their country. Unfortunately, revolutions are often bloody...successful revolutions are rarely imposed by some foreign power overruning a country, and handing the democratic keys to a few "smart ones" who get it. That will not build a good enough basis for long-lasting change and support of freedom and democracy.. There are exceptions, of course, to the "bloody" revolutions rule....but this is because, for years and years, resistence movements were well-organized, simmering under the surface, and struck (and had the courage to strike-risking death) when the opportunity presented itself. This doesn't really exist in Cuba. Most Cuban (on the island) are content with their thankless lot it seems. What is sad and mind-boggling: Those Cubans in Miami who left Cuba, and want "brother" U.S. to solve their problems. If they really wanted their country free, they would have stayed and fought for it (and risked their life). If they want their country free now, they should figure out a way to sneak back, and start/join existing protest movements. As was seen in E. Germany, the Czech Republic, etc., when the masses that no longer believe in the legitimacy of your country get so large, no amount of bullets, tanks or guns can stop it. We don't have that in Cuba, and are far from it. Living in So. Florida, I am very tired of hearing about Castro and from the Miami Cubans who complain about him. They know what they need to do (to free their country), but they don't have the will to do it. They would rather sit in the U.S., beat their chest (let U.S. solve, essentially, their problem), and wait until Castro dies. I don't find this particularly brave, and I don't call that fighting for your country. The funny/sad thing is: When Castro dies, and there is some transition, and Miami Cubans run back to their "patria" and try to be Cuban again (including claiming "their" land, and likely trying to make a buck off the transition), they are going to get blank stares from the Cubans who now live there, and more likely then not hear, "You are not Cuban, you left". And that won't be far off.. (BTW- By this post, I, by no means, mean to disparage any who died tragically leaving Cuba for the U.S. That is profondly sad. But that is different, in my book, then dying fighting for democracy within your country) Rant over