SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : Impeach George W. Bush -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: jttmab who wrote (7869)11/26/2001 12:30:13 PM
From: TigerPaw  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 93284
 
The only scenarios where Bush won were those where significant numbers of votes were simply not counted.

gainesvillesun.com



To: jttmab who wrote (7869)11/26/2001 10:30:31 PM
From: Mephisto  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 93284
 
We subscribe to the Times so I read the article this morning. I wrote a post to someone and told
her that I never thought I'd have to depend upon a right-wing-conservative-extremist, like Safire,
to defend Democracy in America. Always, I wondered why the Times published his articles,
because I have never met anyone who reads them! (LOL).

I wish Congress would take the Bush administration's breach of civil liberties seriously.



To: jttmab who wrote (7869)11/27/2001 12:44:27 AM
From: Mephisto  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 93284
 
It looks like Iraq will be next on Bush's hit list. Bush may want to try to tie bin Laden to Iraq but
bin Laden was furious was furious with Saddam. I found three articles on Iraq. Especially,
I wanted to find the one where Prince Turki bin Faisal, former Saudi Arabia's former intelligence chief,
said that the US shouldn't invade Iraq. Faisal was the US's equivalent of CIA chief. He knew
everyone and just about everything that went on in that part of the world, including the CIA involvement
in Afghanistan during and after the Afghans fight with Russia finished.



To: jttmab who wrote (7869)11/27/2001 12:50:19 AM
From: Mephisto  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 93284
 
Saudi Sees No bin Laden-Iraq Link

November 22, 2001
By DOUGLAS JEHL
New York Times

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia, Nov. 21 —
Saudi Arabia's former intelligence chief
said today that his government had seen no
evidence that the Iraqi government had
provided support to Osama bin Laden's Al
Qaeda network. He said Saudi Arabia would
not support making Iraq a military target of
the war on terrorism.

The official, Prince Turki bin Faisal, said that
his country regarded the Iraqi leader, Saddam
Hussein, as one of the world's most active
terrorists. But he said the best way to topple
him would be a coup carried out inside Iraq,
and that the United States and its allies should
avoid further military strikes in the region.

The warning by Prince Turki was the most
explicit yet in what appears to be a growing
effort by Arab governments to head off what
many in the region suspect may be the next
phase in the American-led war: making a
target of Iraq as a supporter of terrorism,
particularly if it can be linked to the Al Qaeda
network.

"You target Saddam Hussein and no one will
boo or hiss or object," Prince Turki said in a 90-minute interview here. "But
bombings like the ones we saw against Iraq in 1998, or like the ones we've
seen now in Afghanistan, with so-called collateral bombings, when bombs hit
innocent people, will have strong resonance and very bad implications for
relations with the West."

Prince Turki, 56, stepped down from his post in late August in what he said
today was a voluntary departure. But as Saudi Arabia's intelligence chief for
25 years, he speaks with enormous weight, particularly about matters related
to Mr. bin Laden, the son of a prominent Saudi family who was stripped of his
citizenship in 1994 and has become the kingdom's public enemy No. 1.

Prince Turki said he had no explanation for reports from Czech officials that
Mohamed Atta, one of the hijackers in the Sept. 11 attacks, had met earlier
this year in Prague with an Iraqi intelligence official.

But he said that his country's voluminous files on Mr. bin Laden contained no
evidence of any link to the Iraqi government, and he said he was concerned
that Americans eager to punish their foe in Baghdad might draw a connection
where there was none.

"Iraq doesn't come very high in the estimation of Osama bin Laden," Prince
Turki said. "He thinks of him as an apostate, an infidel, or someone who is not
worthy of being a fellow Muslim.

"If there is anything on the table implicating Arab countries it should be brought
out, and not brought out through newspaper leaks quoting between quotation
marks U.S. officials, or intelligence or State Department or defense officials."

Saudi reservations about the use of military force against Iraq are not new. In
1990, after Iraq invaded Kuwait, Saudi officials agonized for days before
permitting American and other foreign forces to enter the kingdom, first as a
defensive force and then as the army of more than 500,000 troops that
ultimately forced the Iraqi withdrawal.

More recently, while allowing American warplanes to patrol Iraqi skies from a
base in Saudi Arabia, the Saudis have refused to let those aircraft take part in
airstrikes against Iraqi targets, even in self- defense. Such raids are typically
carried out from Navy aircraft carriers in the Persian Gulf or by warplanes
from other bases in the region.

Even in the current campaign in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia has limited its
military contribution to allowing American commanders to coordinate the
operation from Prince Sultan Air Base, about 60 miles southeast of Riyadh. In
the knowledge that the answer would be no, American officials never even
asked Saudi officials to allow the use of more than 100 United States
warplanes at the base.

Asked whether there was any chance that Saudi Arabia would allow the
United States to use those warplanes in a strike against Iraq as part of the war
on terrorism, Prince Turki said today: "Absolutely not.

"We've seen in the past what American attacks have done in Iraq," Prince
Turki said. "You remember during President Clinton's time in 1998, two weeks
of attacks, to destroy Saddam's air defense structure and his communications,
and in our view the result of those attacks was merely to bolster Saddam's
position in Iraq and make the people more supportive of him.

"Not only that, it also gained him support in the Arab world, not because he is
Saddam Hussein and people admire him, but because they saw these attacks
as being aggression against Iraq."

There are some within the Bush administration who advocate using the war on
terrorism to increase pressure on the Iraqi regime, perhaps through zones in
southern and northern Iraq in which forces opposed to Mr. Hussein would be
given sanctuary by American troops.

But Prince Turki argued that it would be a mistake for American forces to
become involved in Iraq. He said his government believed that Mr. Hussein
could be toppled, but that the Iraqi military officers and others most capable of
doing so had no interest in anything more than limited outside help. Over the
past decade, Prince Turki said, he and other senior Saudi officials had
"countless times" sought American support for what he portrayed as a
workable approach to ousting the Iraqi leader, in which the only American role
would be to prevent Iraq from using its air forces against its opponents.

"We've always proposed to your country that there are ways of getting rid of
Saddam," Prince Turki said. "There is no lack of Iraqis who are willing to do
that, many of them in the armed forces.

"They have two conditions. One condition is that once they start an operation,
Saddam is denied the use of air power against them. And the second condition
is that once they start an operation, that no outside interference is allowed.
And from 1990 until today, we've been saying that to your people, without any
response."

Some Saudi officials have expressed skepticism about what American officials
say is solid evidence that 15 of the 19 hijackers in the Sept. 11 attacks were
Saudi citizens. But Prince Turki made no effort today to question that claim,
and said that the participation of so many Saudis was "the most disturbing and
the most painful" aspect of what happened.

"We can look at ourselves and say my goodness these are people who grew
up here, who went to school here, who have families here, and look at what
they have done. Of course, there is a need for introspection. Let us see where
we went wrong," he said.

"But I can tell you this. We will find an answer. It is in the tradition and the
heritage of this kingdom to always find answers, and to carry on from there."

nytimes.com.



To: jttmab who wrote (7869)11/27/2001 12:52:02 AM
From: Mephisto  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 93284
 
The Wrong Time to Fight Iraq
Editorial
The New York Times

November 26, 2001

The surprisingly swift successes of the
American military campaign in
Afghanistan have spurred talk about military
action to oust Saddam Hussein from power in
Iraq. The world would be a safer place with
Mr. Hussein's cruel dictatorship removed. At this point, however, there are no
good short-term options for getting rid of him. The Bush administration would
make a serious mistake by moving to wage war in Iraq.

One reason is that America's mission in Afghanistan is far from accomplished.
Osama bin Laden and many top aides remain at large, Taliban fighters still hold
out in the countryside and a few urban redoubts, and the creation of a stable
post- Taliban government has barely begun. Until these basic objectives are
achieved, Afghanistan will remain a potential base for international terrorism.

Finishing the job in Afghanistan requires holding together the international
coalition Washington has skillfully assembled. War in Iraq at this juncture
would almost certainly shatter that coalition. While some Arab leaders have no
love for Mr. Hussein, public opinion in the Arab world would not allow them to
support American military action against him, at least in the absence of clear
evidence linking Baghdad to the events of Sept. 11 or subsequent bioterrorism.
The American and British governments could quickly find themselves alone in
any military campaign against Iraq.

War in Iraq would also undermine whatever possibility now exists for damping
violence between Israelis and Palestinians and restarting efforts toward a
lasting peace. Progress in the new peace initiative announced by Secretary of
State Colin Powell last week might make it easier to ratchet up the pressure on
Baghdad at a later date. Moving militarily against Iraq now would hobble
America's power as a Mideast peacemaker.

Diplomacy aside, the military challenges of war in Iraq are far more
formidable than anything yet seen in Afghanistan. Mr. Hussein can count on
the loyalty of a large army, equipped with more modern and lethal weapons
than the Taliban ever had. The center of his power, Baghdad, is a sprawling
metropolitan area unsuitable to the kind of special operations American troops
have conducted in Afghanistan. In another crucial difference, the United
States would be operating without any effective local allies like the Northern
Alliance in Afghanistan. The Iraqi National Congress, the umbrella opposition
group supported by Washington, is a feud-ridden collection of exiled politicians
who command no combat forces.

Without ground fighters, American air power cannot prevail. The only military
option with any realistic promise of success would be sending in an
overwhelmingly large American ground force. It takes months to transport and
build up such forces, and, unlike the situation prior to the Persian Gulf war,
Washington could not count on the use of staging bases in Saudi Arabia.

Even if these military obstacles could somehow be overcome, Washington
would still be faced with the problem of putting together a new Iraqi
government. The country is sharply divided between Sunni and Shiite Muslims
and between Arabs and Kurds, and there is a real risk of its disintegrating into
weakened fragments, easily manipulated by more powerful neighbors like Iran.

What Washington should do now is intensify its efforts to build up a more
serious internal Iraqi opposition. While Mr. Hussein's security forces are
fearsomely effective, there are hundreds of thousands of discontented Iraqis.
Many can be found among the southern Shiite and northern Kurdish minorities
that took up arms against Baghdad in 1991, only to be abandoned by
Washington, and probably also among the ruling Sunni Arab group of central
Iraq. An effective internal opposition could develop into a potential fighting
force and perhaps the nucleus of a future government.

Meanwhile, Washington should put maximum diplomatic and military pressure
on Baghdad. It can use its improved ties with Russia to enact more sustainable
United Nations economic sanctions and to press for an early resumption of
international weapons inspections. More than two decades of experience
suggests that Saddam Hussein is unlikely ever to become a respectable
international citizen. The challenge of removing him is best left for a day when
the United States can count on the strong and effective support of opposition
forces in Iraq.

nytimes.com