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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bill Fischofer who wrote (8527)	12/5/2001 6:04:01 PM
From: Frederick Smart	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 28931

Self Love.... >>CWG observes that all love begins and ends with self-love>> Love of self is the inversion/perversion of the Divine Love from our creator. Love of self is inside the conditional-relative realm. This is where are natural understanding which supports the insanity of EGO resides. The core seed behind Love of self is the claim the EGO from nature and over others in order to satisfy and balance it's consumption-based matrix. I realize that CWG is not advocating selfishness, but nor is it assiging any value judgment about this. We just "are" and this "are" extends from the "is" which is the love that evolves and flows from the Divine Soul which he refers to as "self." The Divine Love that's inside the infinite reality of the soul which rests within all of us simply makes no claims and therefor is the source of ALL. We aren't "the" source or "a" source. We are simply "receivers" or conduits from the ONE source of energy, light and Love from our creator. Emphasizing the positive from the same basic page. Peace. Light! ONE - LOVE!! GO!!

To: Bill Fischofer who wrote (8527)	12/5/2001 6:34:15 PM
From: James Calladine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 28931

"you (or Adi Da) view the self as some sort of unfortunate burden that we are somehow saddled with" That is probably because of some distortion on my part. I am not presently enjoying the revelation of my own ego! Here's another explanation, from an Adi Da discourse called "THE TWO MOMENTS OF ENLIGHTENMENT" from the book "SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF THE EXISTENCE OF GOD WILL SOON BE ANNOUNCED BY THE WHITE HOUSE" There is no "ego". There is no "matter". The "ego" or the independent self, is a presumption in or of the mind, based on the conventional psycho-physical self-reference. And "matter" or the independence of the body and all other apparent forms, is likewise a presumption in or of the mind, also based on the conventional psycho-physical self-reference. Once insight awakens relative to the conventional psycho-physical self-reference and it is Realized to be itself only a condition of (or contraction of, or superimposition upon, or modification of) the native Being-Energy wherein all conceptions, presumptions, perceptions and sensations arise--then "ego" (or independent self) and "matter" (or the independence of forms) become transparent in the Unconditional Being-Energy (or Radiant Transcendental Consciousness) that is always already the Condition of "I" and all the "forms" that arise as experience. This Realization is the first,primary or foundation Moment (or level) of Enlightenment. When this Realization begins to be both profound and stable under all experiential conditions, the Transcendental Being begins to Radiate or Shine in Excess of conditions themselves. That is, the primary Realization of the Real Condition of the body-mind and all experience is ultimately Demonstrated as the Outshining or Bliss-Transfiguration of psycho-physical phenomena by the Radiant Transcendental Being, the Living Divine. The Blissful Excess of Radiant Being or Love, is the ultimate or Perfect Moment (or level) of Enlightenment. And that Process of Transfiguration gradually produces all the possible forms of Transformation of experience, including all possibilities within and beyond a single human lifetime, culminating in eventual Translation into That in which all phenomenal changes always already inhere. If this does not EXACTLY agree with the picture given in Walsch, it should not be surprising. There are 7 stages of life and the realizations in each differ. Further, there is lots of evidence that suggests that the Divine explains things in terms of that which can presently be conceived by the particular listener. Namaste! Jim

To: Bill Fischofer who wrote (8527)	12/5/2001 8:02:09 PM
From: s.jennings	Respond to of 28931

"I wish we could find a better vocabulary..." I don't know if this will help or hinder but I'll throw it out there anyway. My own understanding is this: Starting from "I AM", the "I' is the totality of my being, the conscious mind, sub-conscious mind, whatever other levels of consciousness that may exist in the mind as well as the body and its intelligence. My everyday, working class intelligence is the conscious mind. Because is is only a part of the whole and limited to the capacity of relative thought it does not understand who "I" is and therefore has a certain inherent insecurity. This insecurity prompts the conscious mind to create an entity that it can understand and through which it can relate to other people and the world at large. This entity is the "self". The self is afflicted with the same insecurity as the conscious mind and so it determines what I need in order to insure my survival. For example, as we grow from childhood to adulthood the self determines the need for financial security, not wealth necessarily but at least a steady job and a few bucks in the bank. The self says I need to "become" financially secure so it focuses its energy on "becoming" financially secure. This" focussed energy to become" or " becoming" in my view is ego. Once I have a job and a few bucks I can relax and focus my energy back to the other areas of my life and the ego ceases. I go back to simply "being" myself. So ego in this sense is a means to an end. When we run into problems is when my self gets a certain amount of gratification from the financial security it has achieved and I become a little proud of my self. I am tempted to seek a little more pleasurable gratification from "becoming" more financially secure, maybe even wealthy. We all know people who have more money than they could spend in 3 lifetimes and yet they continue to pile it up. Is it about the money or is it about the "becoming" and the gratification that comes with it? When "becoming" or ego ceases to be the means to an end and winds up being an end in and of it self, we are engaged in an "ego trip". "I" has no need because it is whole so it doesn't need to "become" anything. It is content to simply be. The notion that ego or self stands in the way of knowledge of God or other levels of consciousness is not because God is good and ego is evil. It is simply that ego is "becoming" or activity on the part of the conscious mind. The only time we usually experience the sub-conscious mind is when we sleep. Why? Because thats the only time the conscious mind, self, ego whatever, shuts up. The whole notion of cessation of the ego is simply an attempt to get the conscious mind to shut up and listen to the sub-conscious or whatever other level of consciousness we might possess while we are awake. The conscious mind has a purpose and is a vital part of us but it doesn't need to run all the time. While it is running though we are unable to experience anything else. The old saying is "Be still and know that I AM". Ego, being activity, is the opposite of and prevents stillness.