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Politics : Middle East Politics -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Thomas M. who wrote (74)	12/8/2001 9:31:07 AM
From: Zeev Hed	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 6945

Thomas, I don't know any details of that part of the Shatilla tragedy, yet one sentence from an eye witness struck me as interesting: "Siham Balqees still lives in Shatila and offers one clue as to what may have happened to the men who disappeared. She says she ran inside the stadium and saw her brother standing on a truck. An Israeli soldier threatened to kill her unless she left immediately, but she refused. Instead, she pulled her brother off the truck and walked out with him. ". It seems that this brave lady was able to persuade that soldier that her brother had no "nefarious connections" and without firing a shot extricate her brother. Not exactly a condemnation of that Israeli soldier either (he might have had to stand trial for disobeying an order not to let anyone out until the process of "debriefing" was completed). You should actually take this testimony as a proof of the "humane" behavior of that and other Israeli soldiers. My "understanding" of the Shatilla massacre was that it was a "settlement" of "old accounts" between the Lebanese Christians and the Palestinians (apparently for earlier "massacres" of Christians by Muslims). Apparently, the incident described there, is post the point where Sharon sends in the IDF to stop the massacre (his trial was for taking that action too late), and seems to involve some 40 people "not accounted" for. It seems that no one knows exactly how many people were unaccounted for , were they unaccounted for, and if they were, what happened to them. I see nothing there indicating Israeli forces targeting civilians for death. Questioning, apparently, but not slaying. By the time we are going to be finished with our own 1500 or so "detainees", I am sure that there are going to be a number of "unaccounted" for. Not that anything nefarious necessarily happened to them, they simply don't always go back to where they came from. Zeev

To: Thomas M. who wrote (74)	12/9/2001 1:52:12 PM
From: Math Junkie	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 6945

You wrote: Heck, Prime Minister Sharon himself ordered the slaughter of 1500 Palestinians. What is the evidence for that statement? The article you linked states that Sharon was responsible because he was in charge, but I don't see anywhere that it says that he ordered the killings.

To: Thomas M. who wrote (74)	12/10/2001 5:31:46 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 6945

Heck, Prime Minister Sharon himself ordered the slaughter of 1500 Palestinians. I know of no well substantiated publicly available evidence to suggest that your statement is true. If you are talking about the refugee camps in Lebanon where is your evidence that the attacks where ordered by Sharon and that he order the militias specifically to kill a bunch of unarmed Palestinians. Also even if they where it would be an exception to the general policy one that if proved would theoretically open up Sharon to prosecution by Israel, it would not be acting in accordance to Israeli law or politics. The link you provide deals not with the slaughter at the camps but with alleged Israeli involvement in the disappearance of a smaller number of Palestinians after the attacks. I have no good reason at this point to think that the accusations are true, but even if they are it doesn't support your statement, because it deals with a lot less then 1500 people and there is no specific evidence of Sharon having ordered this. Of course is the Israeli army did something Sharon would be more responsible because he was in charge or the Israeli army in the area. But then atrocities can occur without the orders of or even the knowledge of senior generals. Tim