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To: GraceZ who wrote (141440)	1/3/2002 2:19:07 AM
From: marginnayan	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 436258

I work every day with a small group of public traders who are all former MMs. As MMs they were extremely successful for YEARS, as public traders most of them are slowly going bust and it hasn't taken very long, six months. If public professional traders were former MMs, why are they are playing the game they know they simply cannot win. I think hedge funds could be fall into the category of public professional traders. Also is it not possible that MMs tend to make the stock volatile by competing among themselves to get max return for their trading firm. For example, a brokerage firm downgrades a stock and within next few hours another brokerage firm comes along defending the stock and in some cases even upgrading it. So look likes sometimes MM of a particular brokerage firm might be taking a hit and hence the professional trader. I do not think thousands of J6P sample buys can make a significant change to a stock price on a daily basis.

To: GraceZ who wrote (141440)	1/3/2002 3:57:34 AM
From: sun-tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

When I referred to professional traders I was referring to (and should have said) public traders public traders are retail traders and are an extension of J6P. they have no real influence on the markets. I was not referring to market makers a professional trader is quite different than a market maker. professional traders, who likewise are licensed broker/dealers, do not trade for customers. they do not make markets.

To: GraceZ who wrote (141440)	1/3/2002 12:21:39 PM
From: LLCF	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 436258

<When I say small order pushes price what I'm referring to is the tendency for large amounts of small orders to push price around far more than block orders. While a block order might raise or lower price instantaneously, the price reverts as soon as the order is crossed. Sometimes big blocks are executed with little or no concession in price. While a 100 share order during a low volume lull can change price. I'm sure you've seen this occur. > It all depends on who does the block and why... you saw plenty of block orders in the .com's on their way from hundreds to zero and they sped up the move, not slowed it... cause the MM's didn't want to hold them. DAK

To: GraceZ who wrote (141440)	1/5/2002 8:28:34 AM
From: Bocor	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 436258

>>en I say small order pushes price what I'm referring to is the tendency for large amounts of small orders to push price around far more than block orders>> I am curious as to an opinion from anyone who follows the ARMS index, which has been unusually high in this run recently: 1.53 on the 3rd specifically. I was wondering whether that high ARMS could have been reflecting large sell orders, while the price gets pushed up and out the door to millions of small buyers? Does that make any sense or am I way off base?