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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (15833)	1/8/2002 11:32:35 AM
From: slacker711	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

What is it about "depriving" these 18-19 years old of these wasted years, and giving them a common experience they can share for the rest of their lives with every other American, that you find so offensive? Just to put my two cents in on the argument.... I dont think I would use the word offensive but I do vehemently disagree with the thrust of your argument. I think the key problem I have with the idea is the underlying reasoning that society "knows best". I think I could make an equally valid argument that those who retire early (say before age 63) should be forced to perform community service. After all, in terms of overall societal good, these are equally wasted years. I think we may disagree on the overall purpose of government/society. I am generally unwilling to sacrifice people's liberties to the altar of some sort of societal efficiencies. FWIW....I dont have a problem with the draft. I see the obligation to defend the country as a more compelling argument than simply trying to find a solution to young people wasting their youth. Slacker

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (15833)	1/8/2002 11:55:49 AM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Assuming, for the sake of the argument, that we decided that it would be a Good Thing to conscript all 18 and 19 year olds, what would we do with them, for goodness sake? You're talking about roughly 8 million kids. My guess is that you don't want to put them all in the military, that you have in mind a 21st century version of the CCC, like we had during the Depression. I presume you intend to have them paid minimum wage, at least, and of course they will get Social Security and health insurance and a place to live and uniforms, so double their wages, maybe, and you're talking what? $20K per head per year? Which is all at the taxpayer's expense. Not to mention the cost of administering the programs they will be working for. Yet another government bureaucracy, or several. Not to mention the fact that you are removing them from the regular work force, so they'd be earning less money than they did if they had a real job - nobody works for minimum wage around here, anyway. A lot of employers hire kids right out of high school - for example, my son is looking at NSA and CIA. NSA will even hire high schoolers as summer school interns. So you'd be interfering with the desire of employers in the private sector to give many of these kids jobs, not out of the goodness of their hearts but because they want smart, willing workers that they can train early. I think if the nation had a crying need to put all these kids on the government payroll, that would be one thing, but not just for do-good makework. I think it's an emotional, feel-good idea that just is not practical.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (15833)	1/8/2002 7:57:56 PM
From: Snowshoe	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

What is it about "depriving" these 18-19 years old of these wasted years, and giving them a common experience they can share for the rest of their lives with every other American, that you find so offensive? Millions of those kids have a well-defined sense of what they want to do, along with the social and financial support to do it. I see no point in replacing these existing support mechanisms with some bloated federal bureaucracy under the guise of "developing character". I would rather have our law enforcement people out chasing crooks and terrorists instead of kids who don't report for the draft. More to the point is the question of whether to revive the military draft in the wake of September 11. IMO it would be better to strengthen the volunteer military by improving the pay and benefit structure. I hear all these stories about military families going on food stamps that make me cringe.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (15833)	1/8/2002 11:13:35 PM
From: Dennis O'Bell	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Re: compulsory service... I received scholarship aid in New York State, which, combined with working summers as a technician enabled me to go to engineering school out of high school. My arrival my freshman year was like this breath of fresh air after high school, I met so many interesting classmates who were interested in the kinds of things that I was and I made friends that have lasted my whole life. I got a crappy lottery number and at the end of my Junior year, decided to just get it over with; many of my classmates were scheming to get a 4F or other exemption. To make a story short, I got inducted, went to Fort Dix for basic training where it was discovered that a problem with my eyesight allowed me an exemption anyway... if I wanted it. I went thru most of basic while waiting for the paperwork to opt out, since the choice was either be cannon fodder for Nam, or else sign up for OCS for some number of additional years, which didn't appeal to me the slightest. From what I saw, it was like being surrounded by the largest collection of imbeciles in my life, and was an experience I could well have done without right out of high school, believe me. Having some college and general experience behind me made it a lot easier to deal with. You seem to have a certain contempt for youth, an attitude I don't share, and I don't favor the institution of a national service as some kind of super baby-sitting service for late adolescents on the threshold of adulthood. Personally, I feel the money would be better spent improving our public school systems - something that is extremely important to our country, and that should not be left only to private enterprise. Without clear goals or the need for a compulsory national service, I don't see this working that well. If we do find ourselves in some kind of hellish struggle for our very existence downstream, that would change of course.