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Strategies & Market Trends : Zeev's Turnips - No Politics -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: samim anbarcioglu who wrote (20891)1/11/2002 12:37:42 AM
From: mishedlo  Respond to of 99280
 
I did not say unemployment was at 10%.
I did not say it was at 20%.

Nor do I think it will hit 10% (but it could - I just doubt it).

I was only pointing out that no matter how bad the data someone puts a positive spin on it. NAPM rises a bit (but is still contracting) and that is great news.

Employment falls off the cliff then uptsicks (while still losing jobs) and that is good news.

All news is good news. I propose a simple rule. There can be no bad news. However, we have not seen the employment numbers after the seasonal pickup here. Do I expect 8%. Yes I do. Could it get worse. Yes it can. But of course that will be great news since as we all know unemployment is a lagging indicator. It's "the same" this time.

M



To: samim anbarcioglu who wrote (20891)1/11/2002 1:47:28 AM
From: LTK007  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 99280
 
<<on this one consumer spending is the only damn thing propping up the market. Everybody agrees that this recession is a businness recession. It is the businesses that went into an inventory overflow (which is now all melted down at the moment, which is why the industrial metals futures are all runnning up). This recession was not about a consumer demand recession. It was entirely a business (B2B if you prefer). recession, The whole time, consumer demand kept up and did not fall. Of course it would. The consumer was all but in fully employed. In macroeconomics 101 they teach (still) that 6.5 is considered average employment level for an economy. We had 3 - 4 % employement back in 1997 - 98 - 99. That was off the charts..>> and everybody should know this strange reversal of recession pattern will cause a second hit when the exhausted debt loaded consumer pulls back.This presumption that the consumer will just keep spending is the most complacent conceit i know,and it is a rampant,mass complacency,and that gives me great confidence in just how wrong this view is and i am merely listening to whistling in a graveyard.Study economics 007 please and the diminishing returns on sucking blood out of stone.The consumer will slow down spending or become slaves of credit agencies spending their lives servicing debt(nice choice isn't it).
How shallow the arguments i hear for why the consumer will keep ramping up their spending(the best argument though being that perhaps the consumer is now totally brainwashed and will spend themselves all blindly into a mass bankruptcy).
It is like talking to shubbery when i debate those who contend the consumer will just keep spending.Max p.s. the 6.5 unemployment isn't even a Economics 101 safety feature.Our many working consumers are also over their head in debt.Our advertising and making consumerism a religion has created a credit card welfare state UNFORTUNENATELY those credit card companies charge heavy duty interest rates and have this annoying tendency to want back what they gave you at a good deal higher than they gave it to you.
America has become a pyramid scheme.This is a country in great denial.It will try to sustain itself with endless robbing peter to pay paul and at some point ,games over,the fall shall be fast and hard.
Perhaps ,but i doubt it,we can keep this sham going to roughly 2008--but by then,at least all hell will break loose.I fully realize i live in near-sighted Mr.Magoo society and i think this is because too many don't have the gutz to look into the future.Max