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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Greg or e who wrote (9368)1/11/2002 10:54:34 PM
From: Bill Fischofer  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 28931
 
The concepts of good and evil, right and wrong are a fine place to begin any moral or ethical discussion. They are statements of what we value, of Who We Are. They are thus very real in our experience.

At the same time, we know from history (and sometimes not very distant history) that values are subject to change over time and across cultures. Whether we agree with such change or not, the fact that such changes occur is beyond dispute.

My thinking on this subject began many years ago with the opening of Matthew 7: "Judge not, that you not be judged. For with what judgement you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." This makes perfect sense to me, even more so if one chooses to know that We Are All One. For if there is only one of us then whatever we do to another we indeed (literally) do to ourselves. The "golden rule" also flows naturally from this observation.

In this sense values change over time because our self-concept evolves over time. True, certain values seem deeper and more universal. The classic example is murder, which most people and cultures agree is wrong. The problem comes when we ask whether a particular killing is considered murder. We then discover that the reason murder is considered wrong is because the definition of murder is a "wrongful or unlawful killing". But we'll search in vain for a common definition of what constitutes "wrongful or unlawful" when it comes to killing or anything else.

This leaves us with a dilemma. If we wish to maintain that values have an absolute meaning then whose values are the "right" ones? Not surprisingly, every time and culture offers the same unhelpful answer to that question: "Ours, of course". Yet even in the Bible there is an acknowledgement that values change over time. In Matthew 16:19 Jesus says to Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

Let me know your thoughts on this and I'll be happy to continue the dialog.



To: Greg or e who wrote (9368)1/12/2002 7:34:25 AM
From: Frederick Smart  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 28931
 
Activate the Relationship.....

>>That is one sense, but there is also a sense where we are in relationship with God. This relationship is blocked by our sin and can only be re established by God Himself. Since we are unable to climb up to God by way of religious observance and practice, Jesus came, incarnate, to fulfill the Law for us, that He might receive the just penalty for sin, and graciously give us His righteousness.>>

God's perfect order can never be violated. And it's for this very reason why these empty & loose - faith only - cannons come up empty.

Why?

Because if by faith alone - as many Christian "religious" folks espouse - we forever fallen sinners are to be redeemed then there's not ONE wink any need for me, you or any one of us to cooperate to refrain from evil.

We can sin and sin and sin again and just have faith in this 11th hour redemption of/by/for/in and through Jesus Christ who is God our Father.

The vast majority of what passes for mankind's religion never succeeds in activating an unmediated relationship with our Father Jesus Christ because they are claiming to mediate, regulate, judge and claim credit for taking this role IN FRONT OF - even INSTEAD OF CHRIST.

And this empty loose cannon belief in the empty power of faith at the 11th hour time of redemption ensures that individuals remain in a state of suspended spiritual animation as we float and flutter, fall and pick ourselves up after retreiving burnt broom after burnt broom from the orders of these Wizards - the egos inside each individual - who continue to feed the illusion of separation between man and God by worshipping claims and talking credit for the light, energy and Love of God.

For as you say...

>>This relationship is blocked by our sin and can only be re established by God Himself. Since we are unable to climb up to God by way of religious observance and practice, Jesus came, incarnate, to fulfill the Law for us, that He might receive the just penalty for sin, and graciously give us His righteousness.>>

His energy, His knowlege, His wisdom, His light, His love....

Jesus is our ONE Lord God in Heaven who fullfilled his mission in which as God He took on an incarnate body, lived a perfect life of Love and successfully made His Human Divine. The human was not Divine prior to the Glorification on April 9th in 30 AD. But on the day of glorification when His work was finished the massively strong woven curtain in temple was torn completely in two.

The Kingdom of Heaven had arrived for it was now possible once again for man to activate and step directly into in a direct relationship with our ONE Lord God in Heaven who is our Father Jesus Christ. And from that time forward there has never been a need for representative-based mediation with anything that mankind may attempt to conditionally ritualize or form doctrine about.

From that point forward this "New Jerusalem" has been forming bit by bit in the minds, hearts and souls of individuals all over this world. For this New Church knows no walls or boundaries. Each individual is a church in this new model which is governed by His Divine Providence as it's supported by His free and unconditional energy, light and Love.

Emanuel Swedenborg received from our Lord and was "caused to write" what he received over the last 29 years of his life in 27 of his final works on the religion and theology of this energy, this Love.

But if I could speak for him which I cannot, my feeling is that Emanuel wouldn't have ANY interest in claiming or conditionalizing ONE iota of what he was caused to write on these spiritual subjects for his personal credit.

For ALL credit must go to the ONE Source who is our Lord God in Heaven Jesus Christ. And this is the source of ALL the energy, light and Love in the entire universe and all universes are created and supported by Him.

When the natural mind begins to finally "see" the extreme power behind the simplicity of ONE, this is when we let to and open up more and more to allowing Him to come into our mind, hearts and souls so that He can, bit by bit, teach us, guide us and help us along this journey of redemption which involves Him reforming and regenerating us back to His order personally and directly.

This is the process of letting go to let God re-establish a New Will that's is constructed over the Old Natural Evil will which had been enslaving us to the illusion of separation from Him, the source of all light, energy and Love.

So with each individual's "cooperation" Jesus Christ who is our Father in Heaven opens up all the heavens and all the angels become our direct friends and resources to help up, guide us and teach us day by day by day.

This conversation with God begins in the heart and then proceeds into the mind and then flows freely out into the universe where His energy, light and Love is freely and unconditionally received and shared with others in the fullfilment of scripture "thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven...."

I believe the Lord is working miracles all over this world every second of every day. I see this New World and this New Jerusalem being formed directly by Him, in Him, with Him and for Him. And all of this is being done in a way that in no way attempts to compell or violate the freewill of individuals. For the truth is not something that can be forced or compelled on anyone. It can only be freely received and shared with no hooks, bells, conditions or restrictions attached.

119293!!



To: Greg or e who wrote (9368)1/12/2002 11:55:09 AM
From: James Calladine  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 28931
 
Greg, a few posts back (replying to Bill) you said:
"there is also a sense where we are in relationship with God"

and:

This relationship is blocked by our sin and can only be re established by God Himself

and if I understand those comments correctly, the essence
is:

-- we desirably are in a RELATIONSHIP with God
-- we are somehow separate from God
-- we are BLOCKED from that relationship by our sin

in response to that may I repeat a post I made several
weeks ago:

<<<ADI DA: Have you all heard about the Dreaded Gom-Boo? Or the impossible Three-Day Thumb and Finger Problem? Aha! You see? Nobody tells you about these things except Me.

A myth has been circulating for many centures now that humanity is diseased, that all beings are suffering from what I call "The Dreaded Gom-Boo", also called "sin", "maya", "ego", "suffering", "separated individuality", "illusion", "delusion", "confusion", and "indifference". You are supposed to accept this diagnosis, realize how diseased you are, and submit yourself to the local religious hospital, where a father or mother doctor will confirm your disease and require you to submit for the rest of your life to various regimes for your own healing and ultimate cure. Such is the basic proposition of traditional religion, and it begins with the diagnosis of the dreaded disease.

Tradition has it that by birth, by virtue of their very existence, human beings are all, even now diseased, sinful, separated from the Great One. What a horror! Yes! What an obscenity has been laid upon people through the traditions of society, which, merely because of the impulse to survive as the body-mind, have for centuries required human beings to invest themselves with the belief in this disease and to suppress their own life-motion, which comes only from the Great One, in order to fulfill the presumed needs of this chaotic society.

I come to tell you tell you, as I stand in the midst of the priests of this horror, that not even one of you is suffering from this disease. It is an imaginary disease, a terrible disease, but altogether imaginary. No one has ever actually had this disease. Not one single being has ever had the Dreaded Gom-Boo, or the impossible Three-Day Thumb and Finger Problem. It has never happened! It does not exist!

What is the Truth? You are Happy. You live in God. The Great One is your Very Being. You inhere in the Love-Blissful, Forceful Being of the Starry God, the Mystery, the Person of Love. This is your Situation and your Destiny. And this is my Message to you: There is no disease. There is nothing to cure. You are not a patient and you are not parented. You are not a child. No dreadful destiny lies before you. There is nothing whatsoever to cure.

However, in spite of these truths, you act like a patient or a diseased person, and you seem to deny or doubt the Very Condition of your existence. Therefore I must remind you of It. I must Call you to observe yourself and to see how the conception of this disease arises. Where does it come from? How do you contract this imaginary disease and become involved in seeking its imaginary cure? I Call you to observe yourself and you will see--well, you're grabbing your ass! You're pinching your belly, you're ripping your hairs out. You're biting your tongue. You're pulling out your teeth. You're sticking your fingers in your eyes. You're causing yourself great pain, because of your motive to be independent.

You will NEVER be independent. There is not even a molecule of wood in this wall that is independent. Nothing and no one is independent. Everyone inheres in the Great One, the Magnificent Lord, the Marvelous Starry Person, the Delight of Being Itself. Everyone lives in That. That is your Situation now. This moment is the moment of Happiness, as is every future moment, every moment after death, beyond this world and other worlds, lower worlds, higher worlds, after-worlds, no worlds. It is all the moment of Infinite Delight, unless you become egoically self-conscious, and withdraw from your relations and contract upon Your Happiness and forget It.

This is my Message to you, then. There is no disease except the one you fabricate and reinforce through all the propagandas of this horrible world of egos. Understand this and instantly be free of it in every moment. Be free of this imaginary concoction of suffering. There is no such thing! The Great One has magnified Itself in the form of sexual beings, human beings, sexless beings, earth-world, form and fruit and wood and wall and space and star and sky and cloud and tree and life and death. The same Great One takes all these forms, completely Indifferent, completely Free, completely Happy in all these excesses. This is all the Great One. The Great One creates nothing. The Great One IS everything. What a Paradox! What a Mystery! What a Magnificent God!

This is My Message to you. How Magnificent is this obscene, absurd, ridiculous, paradoxical Being that Is everyone. This is what I tell you, and it relieves you of the conceit of your suffering and disease, the belief in your un-Happiness. It relieves you of your willingness to submit yourself to being a patient for the rest of your days. You are not a patient. None of you requires a cure, no of you has parents anymore except perhaps as your friends. Everyone stands free in the Great One, the Living One, the Living God, the One Who has Inspired all the great Adepts for centuries, the same Delicious, Glorious, Divine One Who is your own form, your own process, even your own body.............>>>

(this is about a third of the total talk)

and here are two further paragraphs from it which speak of
"the business of life"

ADI DA: <<< There is no separation. Therefore, you should
magnify the Glory of God in your own form and also beyond your own form. To be in God--to understand your separate and separative self, which is to believe in disease, and to be free of it in every moment and therefore to be magnified and purified in the Happpiness of the Glorious Starry God--is the business of life.

That is my Wisdom-Teaching. That is the Absolute Truth,into which I My Self am Born from Eternity, appearing to be human and being unacceptable to the shouting crowd of this life, seeming to be an absolute fool, Communicating to you the glorious Happiness of your fundamemtal Being. To do so requires no righteousness whatsoever. None. There is no righteouseness. There is only this Happiness. Go and make morality out of that. Go and make society, community, life and death out of that. That is My Wisdom-Teaching>>>

Namaste!

Jim