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Politics : War -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: goldsnow who wrote (10901)	1/13/2002 8:02:13 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

Although many of the Arabs settled into Palestine after the end of Ottoman Rule and British take-over, it is not a dishonest position to take that many generations of Palestinian Arabs lived there, before Thousands upon Thousands of Jews came to Palestine and pushed them and other Arab newcomers from the land.... goldsnow, this is not accurate. If the Zionists had "pushed" Arabs from Palestine in the period 1880 - 1948, you would have seen a decrease in Arab population, or at least slower growth than in the neighboring countries. This is the opposite of what happened; Muslim population of Palestine grew from approx 250,000 in 1880 to 1.2 million in 1947, a nearly five-fold increase, much faster than the population rise in Syria or Transjordan. Rather than "pushing" Arabs out of their territory, the Zionists brought economic development that attracted many Arabs to their areas of settlement, for one obvious reason: jobs. Many observers of the day noted instances where Arab tenant farmers hired someone to tend their farm, while they went to work for the Jews for wages, because it paid better. Churchill commented that it was ironic that no matter how fast the Zionists settled Palestine, they could scarcely outcompete the Arab immigration they attracted. The local effendi made a killing selling land to the Zionists, often land they had considered worthless desert or swamp. When the buyer came to claim the land, he often found it inhabited by the tenant farmer, who had had no say in the sale. The usual policy was to pay off the tenant as well. I know that when my great great uncle bought land in Palestine under the Turks, he had to pay off the Turkish officials, the Syrian landowner, and the tenant farmer as well. The tenants are the one class of people who got pushed, and became ready recruits when the effendi changed their minds and decided to start fighting the Zionists they had sold the land to.

To: goldsnow who wrote (10901)	1/13/2002 8:50:28 PM
From: lorne	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 23908

Hello Goldsnow. Interesting stuff. As you have said...." Lorne, Although many of the Arabs settled into Palestine after the end of Ottoman Rule and British take-over, it is not a dishonest position to take that many generations of Palestinian Arabs lived there, before Thousands upon Thousands of Jews came to Palestine and pushed them and other Arab newcomers from the land....Thus a central issue to the conflict was/is the right of Israel to exist...' What you say is quite true but predating this period the state of Israel existed on this same land and the Jews were driven off their lands as thousands of arabs moved onto Jewish lands. So did the arabs who took over Jewish land by force win the right to exist? and if so should not the State of Israel have the same right to exist as did those peoples who took over Jewish lands? And looking back in history the Jews were evicted from many different arab countries under threat of death without any compensation for their lands. There is a similar thing going on at this time in Zimbabwe with mugabe. So during wars or conflict's between countries does previous ownership of the land mean anything at all when land is taken by force and held by force.? Lorne